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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:46 pm 
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Loose Mouth
Loose Mouth

Joined: 14 May 2008
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Location: MI
all i was trying to get accross is i think they are used for far too many things then they should be. .............TC

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Last edited by toe cutter on Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:03 am 
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Bawl Mouth
Bawl Mouth

Joined: 22 Apr 2008
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TC, i agree with over use of e-collars myself but like you said they are handy for some things and only if used correctly. i myself havent been into coon hunting but a few years and havent had my hound long, only about a year. he was only a started dog then. well i didnt really know diddly about anything at the time i got him and didnt know about this site for help. most of the people i knew that hunted said yeah we will help you, of course i should have known better than to bank on it. of course i didnt have the money for a shocker and still dont. but anyway, he definately had the drive to hunt then but couldnt get past the first deer track to get to a coon. so i had to use my own logical thinking to get to this dog and start making progress. his handling was pitiful, was deer crazy, bout the only things he would do right is get out from under my feet, and load in a box.
first things first i taught him some manners through consistant training on basic commands and walking him almost every day to get him to handle on a lead. after thinking long and hard about it i figured i could expose him to deer everyday on a lead and use harsh voice commands to disapprove when he showed any interest. were i live i knew the exact time deer showed up in the woods behind my house, so id walk him to em everyday. when the deer would spook and he would try his best to go after em, id pop his lead and tell him "no, bad dog", then walk him to where the deer stood and let him smell. when he showed too much interest in the scent, once again id pop the lead and repeat "no, bad dog" until he wouldnt pay any more attention to it that day. i did this consistantly for probably 4 months everyday and sometimes twice a day. at the time i coon hunted him in an area that deer were not so abundant and the coon were way overpopulated, that way i knew there was a greater chance of him running coon. finally a friend of mine let me borrow a shock collar, the first thing i did was walk him to the deer let him run out of sight and cut him loose. he got 1 zap on the neck and that was it. now i ran him with the collar for a few months but never used it unless i was 100% he was running a deer, but that had never happened since the first zap. this hound since that first sap has treed 60+ coon on his own in the past 5 months that i have seen. mostly because of my limited time to hunt and season was closed for part of that. i also only knocked the first 5 or 6 coon out he treed and cut him off, only giving him a little taste and that seemed really get to him and made him want them much more. but anyway i really think that the exposier to deer on the lead made a huge improvement and think that helped 10 times more than the shocker ever did, just because he already knew he was in the wrong when he got the only zap from it. never had really any problem with possum only on 2 occassions which he didnt get praise for treeing, he got the "no, bad dog" and walked off the tree scalded from words. i have never laid a harmful or angry hand to this hound, just good harsh commands, making him bond to me.

i still get nervous from time to time when cutting him loose but confident enough in his training to know im gonna see a coon. im not gonna say he is completely finished but i think he is definately close.

my advise is dont cut em loose if you dont wanna go to em. the only time i call my dog in is when he has not opened and when im ready to leave. and the only time he will come is when he hasnt found a coon track. if he is on a trail i had better get to walking because he wont come off a coon track for anything and i wouldnt dare make him come off a track for anything either no matter how ready i am to go home. only time i can get him off a coon is to pull him off the tree and drag him off but i do it praising him.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:45 pm 
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Loose Mouth
Loose Mouth

Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 2697
Location: MI
yep, common sense, better to have sense and no shocker, then a shocker and no sense.......................TC


Last edited by toe cutter on Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:56 am 
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Bawl Mouth
Bawl Mouth

Joined: 22 Apr 2008
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i spent a lot of time in and out of the woods working with this hound, and it has been one heck of a journey for the both of us. i did put a lot of thought and patience into what i was doing because i didnt want to make mistakes. there have been times that i did just want to give up but i kept in mind it would pay off. slowly but surely i seen improvements each and everytime i went out for a hunt and that kept me going and kept me into making sure i kept his training consistant. only thing i have to do now is cut him loose and wait. i keep him in the woods and i am still seeing results of him getting better and better each and everytime i take him out. now i just cant wait to really see the best of him because i know i have not seen that just yet, even though he about to turn 3 years old. walking to the tree and finding coon has become a nightly event for me. i still mix his hunting up a lot by taking him into areas where i know he has a good chance of having to run a tough track, and try to give him as much experience as i can on different tracks. that i think has also helped his abilities, as far as improving, on nightly hunts.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:39 pm 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 28
I use an e-collar all the time when needed, but in the wrong hands they can and will be very destructive. anytime this subject comes up i've always said YOU HAVE GOT TO BE SMARTER THAN THE DOG. they are great if used right but if not they can make a mess.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:58 pm 
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toe cutter wrote:
I know how i've seen other peoples dogs respond. as long as they have the shock collar on they are cured of the fault. shortly after it is not wearing it, they go back to doing the same old thing they did before. to me hunting a so called "broke"dog with a shock collar is like riding a horse with the halter and the bridal on it. i remember seeing people putting their hounds in the nite hunts wearing a shock collar. you can talk till your blue in the face and i'm still only gonna put one on a unbroke dog when its the last resort. i'm by no means the worlds best trainer and i am set firmly in my ways. plus i don't seem to have the problems that are posted so much on this web site, maybe its the breeding in my dogs, maybe i'm just lucky, i don't know :?: :wink: ..........TC

I have such a dog i bought last year, i not only have to keep a shocker on him all the time, i have to give him a tickle every couple of days so he knows its working and it will be used if he messes up . as long as i do this hes right as rain i don't and hes off running trash in no time. last night i put my new trashbreaker on my young dog and my old collar that doesn't work on him thinking maybe it would keep him in line. and it did we treed five coon. Then the young dog went after a deer and he ran with him unchecked by the shock it completely ruined the rest of the night didn't get another coon after that. every trail was junk. To make it worse i couldn't even tune up the young dog for it because my girlfriend had the remote 80 miles away. Now im no dog training genius, or a dog wisperer by no means, but hes ether too smart way too stupid or he likes to test me to see what he can get away with. And hes a tough old bird i have hit him on high many a time with a freshly charged shocker, and he will just tighten up his hide and shake alittle with out a squeal yelp or anything. anyone else have a dog like this.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Tight Mouth
Tight Mouth

Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 230
Location: Oklahoma
toe cutter wrote:
i met a man at a hunt one night . he had came back early because his nite champion had been scratched for the second hunt in a row for treeing oppossum. when asked by another man if he had tried a shock collar he said yes he had, but now the dog would not hunt if it had the shock collar on it. he said it would just stand there hunkered down.
If the shock collar is used correctly, they don't know when they're wearing it and when not. I never let hound see the collar when putting it on. Also, put it on 2 or 3 days before hunting. After breaking, I let mine wear a dummy for a while. Never had a relapse. Whipping at least once is important. After that, he knows he's in violation and the shock is not confusing. One shock severe is better than multiple less severe. You can break him in one session. I like the whip-with-possum method for first time but haven't used it. Id be careful though. Wouldn't want to cause brain damage.


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 Post subject: Re: shock collar crazy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:54 am 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 18
Location: California
I've trained close to twenty dogs with isn't a whole lot but have never used or even thought of buying a e collar. I learned the old fashioned way I guess. I do think they can be a good thing but more times then not they aren't used right. I have a temper so I dint think I need one. I'm big, loud, and have a deep voice......yelling works for me.


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 Post subject: Re: shock collar crazy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Tight Mouth
Tight Mouth

Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 123
Location: Illinois
im buying one only because he has a major problem with being way to aggressive towards cows

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 Post subject: Re: shock collar crazy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:38 am 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Posts: 93
Location: Ga
TC I have always enjoyed reading your posts, you give sound, and easy to follow advice. I agree shock collars are as overused in training coonhounds as caged coons are. I think the main problem is lack of education on how a dog learns, if you put a collar on a dog to call him back, but never do any yard training to show him what you want you are waisting your time, and if you do the yard training correctly you will not need the collar to call him back anymore. I use a shock collar on young dogs just in case they get theirselves into trouble, you can usually nip it in the bud right there. The military did studies on service dogs and found that to correct or reward a dog for any behavior it should be done within 1.3 seconds of the act occuring. In other words, if your dog runs a deer, and you catch him 20 minutes later and beat the crap out of him, he has no idea why you are beating him. The other problem is people for some reason like to holler at the dog before they give them a shock, all this does is confuses the dog, and lets him know where the shock came from. I think it just goes back to a post I read the other day that said 80% of the pups born today don't have the smarts to be a coon dog. I disagree, with the breeding over the last hundred years or so I think over 80% of pups born today have everything they need, the problem is 80% of the people buying pups aren't cut out to train them.


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