shoot if it was that easy we would throw are male dogs in a pen and put one female in heat and hook that car battery up to the e-collars and fix everything.anyone can control a dog with an e-collar and dont forget to start the car so the battery dont go dead or your gonna be in a jam.lol

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Shows your ignorance on e-collars.(no offence) You hit one with elec. in a fight and they fight harder. Dog fighting has to be handled by hand. Can't beleive you haven't ever seen more than one dog in a yard successfuly managed. I have even done it when I didn't work at home. They eat,sleep,and hunt together. Three intact males but if you were dumb enough to throw a bitch in heat in the middle of them. There probubley would had been a fight BUT I would had won it.

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Train don't complain!!!!!
Dawg
Grady Jarvis

By the way Boots,If any one can train with an e collar. Why is there so many dogs getting ruined with them? I am just trying to show the ones that don't know how to use one. How to do it with out ruining there dog.
If you notice I very seldom advise any one to use enough heat to hurt there dog. That is punishment and it only comes when the dog knows the command and the consequences for not obeying the command.
If you don't beleive in training with the collars. By all means, go ahead and use those long lines, throw chains and what ever else you use for off leash commands.
I have seen man tracking blood hounds used off leash with e collars. If you don't think so ask Glen Remby & Jerry Yelk out of Kansas. They use to work the most high profile man tracking cases in the country. E collars are a great tool if used right.

By the way the word i used was control.Yeah your just stopping people from making the mistakes you made with it.Just for the record hog shockers have been used to stop fights in the box for years i have seen them stop just from the ticking noise it makes.e-collars are a good tool but as much advice i see you give with it your dogs have to be collar smart oh boy here we go i brought your dogs into it lol.There is to ways to train a dog threw its stomach or pain it will react to the command better if he has the drive to want to make you happy.the e-collar is to make the dog not want that feeling and get its attention now when you were a kid and your parents grabbed you by your ear to talk to you because you kept on walking by it stopped you to listen the e-coolar does the same thing so stop kidding your self it does hurt and every kid needs its ear grabbed.

Well Boots your finaley right about somthing. I do share my mistakes I have made down threw the years. Isn't that what helping people all about.But that is about it. The rest of it I wouldn't aggree with.
For instence hog shockers are a whole lot hotter than any collar. When in a box so the dogs are touching and cant get away from each other you are just burning them both alive. It is a differant type of current too. Thus when you touch your dog while being shocked. It doesn't shock you. The shock from a collar is the same curent my tens unit I use on my back. As perscribed by my doctor. It too has a way to turn it up AND DOWN. It just makes the muscels contract. Doesn't hurt unless you turn it really high.
I shock myself with a new collar to see at what setting it starts getting rough. That is why I use one with a rheostat (dimmer) switch. So I can make the shock fit any situation on any dog. Just ordered me a new 2 dog system. You train a dog on very low. That is what I am trying to get to people. You can train with one. Not just punish!!!!!!! If you do train with one YES they will get collar smart. But you put the collar on when they hunt any way. I want my dog to know it is coming from me. They know I can't punish them when it is off but they know they will get rewarded if they do what there told. They allso know if they don't do what there told I will put there collar on. You have to be consistant with any training tool.
They are more obeident with out there collar on though if you do it RIGHT. IF you train with the collar AND REWARD FOR GOOD BEHAVIOR!!!!!!!!!!! then your dogs will still mind with out the collar after they learn the commands and like the rewards. If you train with nothing but treats. You have a dog that will mind ONLY when it wants a treat worse than the distraction. My ridgeback is 6 yrs. old. He search's for cadaver,sits,stays,backs up,speaks on command and doesn't stop till told quiet, lays down,getts out of any room when told (get out),jumps,rolls over,comes (and if told to hurry will run to you), and takes the news paper from the paper boy to my wife every day, (for the small price of a treat, goes and get my wife when told to get moma and I am sure I have left out some but you get the idea. All done with the collar and he hasn't had it on in a year or so and that was just for 1 day as a reminder to leave my customers alone.
Before the collar. People used a long line hooked to a choke chain to break them from the cat chase. When the dog took off after the cat they would holler WHOA or BAD or HERE about the time the dog hit the end of the long line. You know what the dog did when it hit the end of that line. With the other tied to a post. Now a shock with the type of curent a collar puts out isn't worse than that.
If you yell HERE at your dog trained with a treat while it is chaseing a cat or what ever. It is going to keep going. If I do it, mine are going to stop and come back like there told. Becouse they fear the consequences ( I will hit them hot for that in training) but don't have to do it the rest of there life and they do it for the reward they get.
Like I have said before though I have made mistakes and still do. I share them so others don't have to make the same. I appreciate people telling me about there mistakes or training tips of what they learned from them. That is what a training tips forum is I thought.
I learn from every one. Even you Boots. I have learnd how hard it was on Columbus to try to tell the people the world wasn't flat. New ways are never received well. I am not saying my way is the only way. I am just saying there are a lot of professional's out there useing it for all kinds of training. It does work when done correctly. If your dad had given youa cookie for doing what you were told after he twisted your ear to get you to do it. You wouldn't of had to get your ear twisted as much. Especially if he could twist your ear from a mile away (like a collar).
Happy hunting guy

ok dawg you seem to change the topic i dont think you comprehend what im telling you. i say control you come back with im saying training.i tell you e-collars are a good tool you say i dont know what im saying.im an electrician and i dont care what kind of current it is its still a shock it goes from one probe to the other.i never used a hog shocker but saw them used if i used one i would tell you.you said a shock would make them fight harder.the whole thing about the ear was if you did not stop walking it would be as painful as you wanted it to be.Just like an e-collar.i do use them and i also train bird dogs so please dont get into that either.i just think that it is abused you know if you use to much toilet paper at one time it clogs your bowl up. well good luck with everything wish you well.Pm me anytime

Boots ,lets just agree to disagree. My gyp just treed the first coon I have seen with my own dog in over 3 years. I am a happy camper. I hope you don't take this debate to personaly. I would still love to enjoy a good hunt with you some time.

good im glad for you.yeah we will hunt someday.(IF YOU DID IT MY WAY IT WOULD HAVE ONLY TAKEN 1/2 THE TIME) LOL TAKE CARE BE SAFE

pups growing up together ,especialy littermates,coming from the same litter,they have already started a pecking order in the pack or litter at 3 weeks old.thats what the rough and tumble and mock aggression is all about in the little puppies interacting with each other.its playing,but it is also finding who is who in the litter.. any pack is gonna have an alfa male or matriarch female if left together long enough to establish one without interference from us..most of us have the opinion that left together in the same pen will cause faults and behavior problems unless they are constantly monitored and stopped. most of us cannot stay watch over them 24/7. so it is much easier just to seperate them and avoid the problems that way....when they are growing up, is when you do the interaction and socializing with other dogs with them.no one is saying not to let them interact and socialize with each other,just don't pen them together and ignore the problems it can cause.if you don't monitor them.........................TC

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RED EAGLE MACK & RED EAGLE STYLISH BOOMER
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Randy Raper

Ive been reading this post with some interest,But am unclear about one thing,Does this also apply to a fenced yard? Seems to me a fenced yard is just a giant kennel, Or is it a space issue in the kennel?The reason I ask is my hounds are kept in a fenced yard, Am I asking for trouble??thanks..

I have allways kept mine in a yard together. I feed them in seperate buckets snaped to the fence. The ones I have now are in the side yard and I can see them if they are bawling I can go to the window and se what is going on. They are 1 male and 1 female.
The last ones were 3 males and I kept them in a pen at my neighbors. It was about the same size pen but I couldn't see it. Had to walk to the alley to see if there was some thing going on.
If I ever had a peoblem it was usualey while eating. Till we got that fixed I would stay while they ate. My old dog was a chow hound when I go it. He was allso food agressive. After sore ribs and but from a stick I could do anything I wanted with his food and he didn't try to steel the rest of the dogs food.
Now have I had them get into scraps? YES Does it amount to anything ? NO If one wants to play and the other doesn't or something like that they will snap at each other. To tell the other one to leave me alone. BUT if I holler at them they know who is the boss and they had better both stop what ever they are doing.

BUT I spend a lot of time with my dogs. Teach them COME,HEAL,HUP (witch means jump),GOOD,BAD,LEAVE IT and NO!!!!!!!! This helps with all disipline and handeling problems.
If they are just hounds that you don't do much with except in the woods. It is best to keep them in kennels or chains. I find being able to keep them in a yard gives them more exercise. They play a lot. It keeps them from being crack heads the first few minutes when you cut them loose in the woods. BUT they will stell kill to get out of that gait to go.
Oh it has never gave me any trouble in the woods or at the tree. Any agression at the tree or anywere get the stick. About everything ealse I use the e-collar for.

if you are talkin two grown hounds that get along,no. if you are talking about 2 know nothing but high energy burn off pups, then yes.you are asking for problems and faults you would not have if you penned them seperate.its hard enough to train a pup without causing more problems by how you pen them.letting grown dogs or a pup with a older dog or two running around the yard is not the problem. grown dogs and pups know their pecking order, whether you know it or not.in fact one puppy with one or two older dogs will mature faster just because it will not have another pup to play with and it will simulate the behavior of the older dog sooner.but two or more pups together maul each other , face bark each other,then when you try and take one to the woods with your puppy trainer the pup wants to do the same thing to the older dog . your pup trainer might not feel like being mauled while its trying to hunt. which if you did not leave the pups together so they could start it with each other, your training dog and you would not have to be bothered with the pup face barking and trying to maul and play with the old dog and it might just learn something about running and treeing coon. alot of good coondogs are ruined because they can't take the stress of puppy training.if you leave two pups together to play and maul each other 3 months till 6 or 7 months or later when you want to train them ,there is a good chance you will have caused behavior problems that did not have to be.i dont think most of us are talking about letting 3 six year old males run loose around the yard.we are talking about raising pups penned together, a fenced yard is just a bigger pen.i have seen more then one set of kennelmates,that would not fight or be ill to any other dog,but would try and kill each other on the tree.both being hunted with many other differant dogs and the only dog fight they ever have is if you hunt them together.some were not even raised together.just from being in the same kennel in seperate pens long enough.kennel mate jealousy.........................TC

Thanks for the replies TC..& Dawg..you guys sure remind me of The Hatfields & MCcoys..fueding like you do I wasnt refering to pups,I should have made that clear,But reading through this thread I got the impression I was sitting on a time bomb,TC I did get confused on the last sentence or two of your reply,In the same kennel in seprate pens caused jealousy??I thought you were advocating seprate pens?? Oh well I get the drift,I was really trying to answer my buddies dilema with your knowledge,But after reading all this stuff its no big mystery to me anymore,The fenced yard is more or less a big kennel with pups involved? He started out with 8 hounds (puppies) dont ask..Now down to 4 due to agression,Now two of those are trying to kill each other,Both spayed females..So now one is locked in the house all day and the other 3 spend the day trying to figure out out ways to get in there to knock her off...Spooky. .I got the impression I was headed down the same road to disaster,Guess Ill tell him to read this thread and he will make his decisions from there Thanks ..his dogs arent pups anymore they are 3.5 yrs

1st hound, what i was refering to was kennel mates. two dogs from the same kennel,although they were penned seperate on opposite ends of the kennel they hated each other due to jealousy.after one was sold to another person and they were in differant kennels accross town from each other for about a year,the two men could hunt them together with no problem.
i try to do things to not cause the problem in my kennel. i actually go as far as not feeding the same dog first everyday. a differant dog gets fed first each day. i don't want any dog thinking they are special over another.i don't pen them side by side with just a fence between them. i don't want them face barking each other through the fence.or trying to intimidate each other.dogs send signals to each other through body posture or eye contact and things that you may never pick up on when its happening.
i try to do things in a way to not cause them to be jealous of each other or make them ill toward each other.there are many dogs that are not ill because of breeding,but they are caused to be ill because of how they were raised or how they are kenneled and treated..dogs and pups alike................TC

ThanksTC,makes sense to me,I know what you mean about jealousy,If you watch close enough its fairly easy to spot,I think I see it the most when I single a dog out,The others know darn well that they are left behind ,and arent happy about it,So I rotate who goes,Usually I can take all along,But sometimes it isnt possible,Now Im sorta off subject for this thread so I will pose my next question on a new thread,,,