Long story on a timid pup
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Author:  hickish [ Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Long story on a timid pup

If you're reading this,I hope you're comfortable.

Recently got this 7 month old gyp.She was never messed with at all,before I got her.She was kept in a dog pen in the middle of a pasture.
I had worked her after the first few days on leading,loading,riding in the dog box,crossing fences,getting used to the sights and sounds of the woods,etc..etc..
She was very timid when I first got her,and she seems to have calmed down....Some...
She has been in the woods at night a total of 6 times,and she used to just hang out by me,but I kept ignoring her,so she got bored with that,so she started going with my older dogs.She has opened several occasions,but nothing spectacular which is to be expected.
The other night,I took her with one of my other dogs,and she done real well,she treed a possum by herself,and stayed there for a short period.
Seems like the longer I hunt,the less she does.I have kept her in the dog box a time or two when she starts acting lazy and let her hear the other dogs run and tree,and each time Ive done so,she has raised cain in the box.On the next drop Id turn her loose with them,sometimes shes ran,sometimes shes hung around.
Anyhoo,the next night I took her with another dog of mine,which she kicked gravel when turned loose,and ran opened,treed with my other gyp.
Fair nuff.
Then last night I kept my dogs here,and went with a buddy who has true coonhounds,but she done absolutly nothing,not once,nothing.
Now she has hunted the first few times with other dogs,but at least one of mine were along also.
Reckon I should hunt her more with mine,since she knows them,and that seems to be when she performs best(at times) until she really gets started good,or should I give her a crash course in hunting with other dogs?Im not wasting time on polishing a turd.
Had she acted this timid on everything when I got her,Id have left her in that pen.
For those who would question her breeding,it consists of

-------------------‘PR’ RIVER BEND MOON
-------------------‘PR’ LAMPON'S NORTHERN PATCH
‘PR’ Splitter--(my pup)
---------------------CH GRNITECH ‘PR' ROCK RIVER SACKETT JR.
--------------------NITECH‘PR’ LIPPER'S STYLISH BABE

Her half siblings are outstanding hounds,from what I have seen,and heard.
I hunt with a 4 year old half sister and a 10 month old half brother to her,and both of them are coondogs.Ive heard littermates are already running and treeing their own,and so forth.Im not thinking it would be her breeding.I blame the timidness,which could be well,yanno.
If what I babbled about makes any sense,some pointers will be appreciated.

Author:  joshua [ Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:11 pm ]
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She sounds like she is doing good to be 7 months old, to me (Jmo) I wouldn’t give up on her just yet. I have had dogs not get started until they were a year and a half. There is always good in a dog you just have to bring it out. It seems to me the good in her is coming out. Just give it time. Keep us posted on progress with her

Author:  milbourn1911 [ Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:30 pm ]
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I'm still a newbie to actually training hounds,but I have grown through the years on hound knowldge from my grandfather. One thing I noticed that differs from how it was back in his time. People now a days are so into there bred dogs. Who the parents were, what bloodline, any champion? From my understanding if a dog is a good dog and learns well. Does what it's suppose to it's a good dog, who cares who it's parents were. No UKC AKC papers or the best pedigree seen will make a hound hunt. The hound and the training make the hound hunt. Some dogs just don't have it.

My hounds I love and are attached to, however I want to hunt. If it got to the point where I thought my dogs wouldn't cut it. I'd let them go. Maybe they will grow out of it, but it comes down to. Do you want to hunt? or spend years on a young pup that may not make it wasteing time that could be spent makeing a better dog outstanding!

Author:  alabamablackpearl [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:07 am ]
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do you walk her to the tree with your freinds dog does she bark or anything if she does get some fur in her mouth shell come around just keep carrying her evry time i recently got a b&t and ever since he was a puppy he was on a chain and had about three or four coons out on him and he was bad to do that but dont woop or shock him

Author:  beardsNspurs [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:31 am ]
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I partly agree with both of the prior posts. I think that 7 months is still awful young....especially considering she had never been messed with prior to you doin somethin with her. My guess is she's still timid and unsure of what exactly is going on. She's still got alot of pup in her......and she doesn't totally have a grasp on what you want her to do......hence the timidness in her.

I also agree that pedigrees most definitely do not totally make a hound. Certainly genetics play a huge part in how a hound finishes out.....but it doesnt play the ONLY part. Judging by the pedigree on your hound and the fact that at least some of her siblings are already running and treeing.....I'd say you have a better then average chance of making a good finished hound providing you take it slow and easy. You said that RECENTLY you got this hound. Now I dont know how recently that is nor how long you have had her....but consider this. Before you got her she sat on a chain out in a pasture somewhere. Since you've had her.....she's been learning leading, loading, how to get across fences, getting used to sights and sounds in the woods etc etc. Then you took her hunting at night a total of 6 times with hounds that she was still getting accustomed to....and then after that you took her with hounds she doesn't know at all. Now I dont know about you.....but if I went from knowing nothing, to being expected to know how to do all that in a short period of time....I'd be timid and unsure too....just as your pup seems to be.

One other thing....the first finished hound I ever bought I got from a breeder. He advised me to take the dog home and let it get used to me, the new surroundings, the new food, my family, etc etc. Of course I didn't listen. Merely a few short hours after I got him home I was in the woods. I got lucky in that the dog treed a coon in bout an hour of hunting and I was on cloud 9. Thats all that hound did for the next 3-4 weeks. He slick treed I dont know how many times after that. I called the seller and told him in no uncertain terms that that hound was coming back and I wanted my money back. He convinced me to let that dog sit for one whole week without doing anything with him. Reluctantly I agreed and did what he thought I should. After that week I took the dog out....and it was like I had a new dog on my hands. He was hunting, trailing, treeing, and doing everything right. He treed more coons in that next week then he had in the previous 5 weeks combined and he's only slick treed twice in the past 6 months. The point of the story is this. If I'd waited and been patient when I first got him....I'd prob have been out enjoying the music he makes long before I was able to.

Author:  hickish [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:44 pm ]
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I know a pedigree doesnt make a hound,but genetics do help.I know all this.
I have never owned a timid hound,on purpose.
Ive always passed them up on purpose.
Ive heard some pull out of it,and make good dogs,and some do not.
That is my concern is that I may have one that will not.
I had her well over a week before I started hunting her.
We spent that whole time loading,leading,and such.
She is no longer gun shy,she now puts her front paws on the tailgate,and gets in the box just fine.
And Im not being impatient with her,or expecting the world right at this time.
I was simply asking how I should go about doing the other dog thing.
Meaning,should I wait until she is more comfortable with the whole hunting thing with my dogs,or the sink or swim with hunting her more with other dogs.
Seems to me that she does significantly better when its just my hounds that she is used to,than when there is another dog or two,with mine.
And when mine are not there,she does less than she is capable of.
Hope that clears up the misunderstanding that Im not being impatient with her,or expecting too much.
Im not used to a timid dog,Im more acustom to gritty pups.
Ive raised several pups,some made it,some didnt.
But none of them were timid.
This is a new experience with me.
And as for the mentioning of her pedigree,is a good number of siblings,half siblings are just fine,even at 10 months.
In fact pedigrees mean very little to me,aint nothing wrong with a grade dog,so Im not riding on her pedigree,at all.
Ive had a couple of grade dogs that I wouldnt ashamed of cuttin with any hound.
Its impossible to get papers to tree a coon.

Author:  BADKARMA [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:20 pm ]
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having much experience with timid dogs you need to hunt it alone until it knows what you want. It takes more time than a week for a timid dog to get used to you, it can take months. Its willingness to load and do things for you is nothing when it comes to socialization. That happens over weeks at crutial ages. This dog is esentially a 7 week old pup and that is how you need to treat it. The dogs mental growth is stunted is all it is. You really need to ask yourslef are you ready for a challenge? This dog could be the best you will ever own in your life however it will take many many hours of your time to make it come out.

Hunt it alone. It is like if you were to take a 5 year old boy and put him in the middle of a bunch of 30 year old track runners and expect him to do something. I know I'd be scared and nervous.

Author:  joshua [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:21 pm ]
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Author:  toe cutter [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:47 pm ]
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hi , buddy- use the same mindset with your pups as you would a young child. if you leave your young child with someone they don't know they freak out. if you leave them with someone they know and trust they are much better. pups and children are alot alike when it comes to how certain things effect them. i hunt my pups with MY dogs only and with the one it is looks the best with. sounds like your female is the one she is most comfortable with and trusts. i've had many,many pups that look great with my dogs and then take it with a strange dog and you would think it had never been in the woods. just like kids ,they don't just fall in there and start playing with strange kids like they would kids they know. especially if they are a little timid to start will find most things that apply to pups is the same as with young children.. :roll: ............TC

Author:  chuckydw [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:09 pm ]
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No truer words have ever been spoken TC. The only thing that I would do differently from Hickish is when the young pup is just hanging around doin' nothin (no matter who or what you're with), put her on the lead until she acts like she's ready to get away from you. As long as a 7 mth old PUPPY is staying out away from me I don't care what they are doin' as long as they're not tryin' to hang out with me. Of couse too, the pup might just not be ready to start yet. She is awfully young. Way too many times these days folks are pushing these "KIDS" too much too young. Just let her go @ her own pace. She sounds like she's trying to do that as she acclimates herself to everything. :)

Author:  hickish [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:40 pm ]
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joshua wrote:

Yes sir,that is her.

chuckydw::,Im not sure how puttin her on a lead would benefit her,or me.
Point is I dont want her around me,so leading is keeping her 3 feet from me.
She will walk wherever I walk on her own accord.I either hunt thick timber,or cornfields,so leading her through the country,would kindly not make matters any better.I would spend alot of time jerking her to the same row I was walking on,or under the same green briar bush,instead of one that she has mapped out.She tends to "want to go more" when she is in the box.She is goin off like a madman in there,and she has yet barked while on the lead.

How goes it?TC that's what I was kind of thinking,but was not sure if that would make her dependant on mine,or unsocialized amongst other dogs.

It is not a case of her being scared of other dogs or anything,its just she has done more when its just mine,and wont do much or anything if there is another set of dogs along,wether mine are there or not.
She has came a long way in the short time since she has been in my yard,and I dont intend to give up on her,yet.I have put many hours with her,either working with her,or just sittin in a chair by her place in the yard hangin out.
She has learned how not to bark in the yard,and what "get in there and lay down" is,in the beginning.Since then it has been all positive re-enforcement.
But I was wanting to know the best way to go about gettin her to do what I know she can,which isnt much.
But I know she cant run and tree a coon,and Im not expecting that.
However I do know that she can do more than just mill around where Im standing,yanno.
And again,I am NOT expecting too much,nor am I pushing a kid too much,too young.

Author:  toe cutter [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:10 pm ]
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it don't bother me to have a pup hang that is as young as she is anyway. i just ignore them and work with em when i get to the tree. as long as i'm not close to a road where it can get hit or something. once she knows whats going on in the woods when the other dogs open they will usually start going on in with them. alot of pups can't keep up with the bigger dogs and they start chase barking and dog tracking to try to. once that starts it is real hard to stop.even when they are older as soon as a dog gets ahead of them on the turn out they start running their fact 7 month old pups i often don't even get them out of the dog box till after i turn the older dog loose.i let one hang around me and keep me company , i let them follow me into the tree where i can teach them something about that.i have never had one that would not run a track after enough time, but i've had some that had neck problems and would'nt look up.when she is older and knows something about what she is doing as far as running and treeing, she will not have as many problems with strange dogs.when a dog is older and starts to slack on going hunting i will put them in the box and make them listen to the other hounds just to get a little more fire in them to go............TC

Author:  joshua [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:26 am ]
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she sure is a looker

Author:  hickish [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:45 am ]
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joshua wrote:
she sure is a looker

Thank ya kindly.

And TC I know that she has done best with my english gyp more so than my ugly walker gyp.The walker is still fast even at her age,and the english dog runs like a basset hound compared to her.I will give taking her out with the redtick for a spell,and see how that pans out.
Thanks again.

I havent had to get onto her for anything once she learned what "shut up" is,and Ive never ever punished her in the woods.In fact Ive never kissed a dogs butt so to speak like I seem to be doing with this pup.She dont know how good she has it. :)
I do know if she turns out or not,Im never gettin another timid dog.

Author:  T om Jones [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:02 pm ]
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Everyone on comp. a million miles away are experts on training so here is MY EXPERT opinion. Quit hunting the pup so much, especially if it is inconsistent (do you want a inconsistent hound). take it once a week and no more. Only with a hound that is the best you know of or take it alone. If it doesnt go dont start taking it more. you can take her more once she starts going. their is tons of bad advice on here and this thread IMO. NEVER WALK A DOG TO ANOTHER ONE THAT IS ALLREADY TREE"D UNLESS YOU WANT A ME-TWO DOG. NEVER PUT FUR IN A DOGS MOUTH UNLESS THEY TREE ON IT BEFORE YOU GET THEIR AND DO A GOOD ENOUGH JOB OF IT................this is common sence