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 Post subject: Aggresive over dead coon
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 22 Apr 2007
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Hoping someone can help me out, here.

We're pleasure hunters, and we usually get 3 dogs out each weekend night. The dogs have been doing really, and I mean really good (12 coons in the last 13 drops). We're having a problem though, and I need some advice.

None of our dogs want to let go of the coon after it's dead. The 2 younger dogs (20 months and 12 months) just want to tug on it.

Our best dog, who is slightly more than 3 years old, will let go of the coon, keeping his head just over it and look at one of the others. As soon as that dog moves the coon, he jumps him.

He hasn't hurt either dog, and seemingly isn't trying to hurt them (he could if he wanted to, he weighs about 80 pounds). When I say he jumps them, he gets over their head and forces them to the ground. He hasn't broken skin on either dog. I know this is just a show of dominance; a sort of Alpha dog syndrome but I don't care, I want it to stop and fast. We've been whipping him with a stick about the diameter of a U.S. quarter. It seems to me that it doesn't really phase him, he lets go once his dominance has been proven.

Right now we don't have a shock collar, but that is going to be our next purchase. Will the shocker help this?

Someone told me we were shoting too many coons out to him. I understand what he meant, but we're shooting about 1 out of 3 to them right now. If we shoot many fewer than that, I'm not sure how much I'll enjoy 'coon running' as opposed to coon hunting. If that's the only thing causing this, I guess we'll just start running 1 dog at a time because I'm not crazy about leaving 8 or 9 coons out of 10 in the tree.

Any advice, even if it's something I already posted here, would be appreciated.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:41 pm 
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Chop Mouth
Chop Mouth

Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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I'll tell you what I do and maybe it can work for you, maybe not.

Whenever I can, I'll tie all or all but one dog up before I shoot. Then, that game comes down equal to all or you have chosen who gets the initial reward. If they all treed, they all get a bite before it gets put away.

No use whipping that dog if it hasn't helped. Don't try to take the game away from a dog, make him give it to you. Teach the dog to release the game on command. When he's got ahold of it, say "drop it" and pinch his upper lips against his teeth until he lets go. You can pull up on his flank right after you tell him "drop it" too, but get your arm out of the way quick when you do that. What you're looking for is to be able to just tell that dog to drop it and then it becomes yours.

It's natural for one dog of several to take control of the game they caught, so I figure let them sort out who that will be if you're running the same dogs together all the time. It sounds like your older dog has already taken that role. Then, make that dog give it to you. Everybody has a rung on the ladder, some just higher than others. You need to be on top.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:56 pm 
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Silent Mouth
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Steve, thanks for the reply. That's actually something we've been considering doing.

They're getting better about letting it go and yeah we can tell them to let go now and as we say let go we give a little pop on the ear with a switch. That seems to have been really effective thusfar, but we're still seeing the older dog jump one of the younger ones since we can't pull all 3 off together.

I understand dogs have a hierarchy and the older and best dog in our case is showing his dominance to the others. I just want him to understand that all of them are equal to us, it isn't him then this dog then that dog and so on. Is that possible?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:16 pm 
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Chop Mouth
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Kentucky, maybe I'm odd, but I don't want my dogs to think they are all equal to me. That's unnatural to them and not the way nature plays the game. If I have a dog (and I do) that is dominent in the pack, I treat that dog with priority respect. That dog comes out the kennel first, gets fed first, gets petted first, etc. I want to reinforce and support what nature has decided. It doesn't mean I love one dog more than another, but I treat them differently because that's what they need and expect.

I have 4 Blackmouth Curs right now and a little Jack Russell Terrier. The 11 pound JRT is recognized as the leader of that pack and will flat put every one of those bigger and rougher dogs tails between their legs in a heartbeat. She is dominent over my other dogs, they respect that, and I support that. Below her is a big male BMC that rules when the JRT is not present. Below him is an adult female. Below her is a 13 month old pup and below the pup is a 2 year old dog. Size makes no difference in dominence, age makes some difference until a younger dog earns a rung higher up the ladder. When an older dog loses his spot, he just steps down and fills the void. They don't pout and whine and get their feelings hurt, they just accept their new role and keep on. We can't treat our dogs like our kids - they aren't made the same

What I predict would happen with your dogs, if you did nothing, is that your pups will soon learn that as soon as the older dog claims the game, they need to back off and that's the end of it. Unfortunately, if your older dog displays that dominence with a dog strange to him, there's going to be a fight. That's why I like to be able to get a dog's attention and be able to tell him to "drop it" (or back off). If he's dominent and submits the game to me, now I'm dominent. Then I let that young buck hunting with me be dominent and carry that big coon back to the truck. LOL!

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 Post subject: similar problem
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:54 am 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 29 Sep 2007
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Location: Missouri
I've got kind of a similar problem but it's different. I've got a 14 month old walker, he'd been mostly raised on a chain before I got him at a year, so he's behind gettin started. I've got a 7 year old lepoard cur I'm tryin and think I'm gonna buy. problem is the other night I took them huntin. the lepoard cur jumped and treed a coon real quick. I went to the tree and my walker wasn't showing any intrest at all when the cur was treein like crazy. I started tellin the cur good job and pettin him on the tree and my walker came over, winded the coon and barked treed about 5 times. I shot the coon out, they caught it and killed it. they chewed on it for a minute and my jack russel got in with them. The cur chewed for a minute then came to me. I petted him and then the cur went back to the coon, when he did the walker started growlin and as soon as the cur touched the coon the walker jumped him and they started fighting. I finally got them split and they went on. the next day I made a drag with the skin, let the walker take off on it, waited a minute then turned the cur loose. the walker is dead silent on track and treed first. the cur went and treed. I let them tree for a second then pulled it out to them. they chewed on it for a second, the cur dropped it to come get petted, then went back , same thing, as soon as he touched it the walker growled and jumped on him and they started fightin again. they're fine wheile they're treein but when it's shot out and the cur drops it the walker wants to fight as soon as he comes back to it. if I was to put a shock collar on him and hit him with it if he wants ta fight again or is there another way to get him to quit. another question is how he doesn't show intrest when the other dogs treed. if I was to pull the other dog off the tree and tie the walker the the tree he's treed on til he trees or what could I do to get him to tree and show some intrest? thanks

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:28 am 
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Silent Mouth
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Steve- again, thanks for the reply.

So, you're saying just let them do it? What happens if down the road one of our younger dogs decides he wants to challenge the Alpha dog for his spot in the family? In my experience this is how nature rules, the strongest is the leader and others will challenge him. He has to constantly prove he is in fact the strongest. I don't want to have a dog lose an eye or have his throat ripped out by another because one of them wants to move up the ladder. I also don't want the younger dogs thinking this is acceptable behavior and ruining pups when we're trying to train them.

It just seems to me that if we don't at least try to stop it, then to the dogs we're allowing it and it will only get worse. Like I said right now he doesn't seem to be trying to hurt either of them. I can't help thinking though, that as they grow and continue to be better hounds their stubborn nature and desire to move up will prevail and the shows of dominance will get violent.

Am I totally off on that? Our dogs certainly aren't backing down from the dominant male, they seem to be more stubborn with him each trip out.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:40 pm 
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Chop Mouth
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I wasn't trying to say that we let dogs fight it out. Dominence, in some form, is going to happen whether we inject ourselves or not. My JRT is about 11 pounds and my male BMC is 70. I didn't make it that way, they did. He could bite her in half any time he wanted to, but he submits even though he's bigger and stronger.

What I am trying to say is that folks sometimes set themselves and the dogs up to an aggressive situation. When that coon comes down and is dead, why would we expect several dogs to not try and take possession of prey they each think they caught? Of course they will and some will fight for it if they have to. The key is YOU and ME. We're the boss, we take the coon, and we don't give it back to the dogs. If a dog growls, hackles up, stiff legs or gives any other indication that he's gonna be boss, WE step in and let every one of them know that we're the top dog.

When a coon comes down and it's dead, dogs need caught up, coon goes in the coat, then they all get a pat on the noggin. The dogs treed it, they made sure it was dead when it hit the ground, then the boss takes it and carries it out. No reason for any display of dominence and no opportunity for a fight.

Shotgunrun, all you had to do was put a lead on that cur when he came back to you. Tie him up, take the coon from the Walker dog and everybody happy. That Walker wouldn't need to act dominent or possessive if the other dog wasn't allowed to come back and try to take the game he think is his by then.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:19 pm 
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Bawl Mouth
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I also have a dog with the same problem. I'm trying to break her of it.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:17 pm 
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Loose Mouth
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I think a shock collar would help. I would tie the dogs up and let one at a time chew on the coon but thats just me. I would not let that behaivior go on and do nothing about it. jmo

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:21 pm 
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Bawl Mouth
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Every dog reacts differently but im gonna tie my dog back and not let her have the coon a couple times if she keeps being aggressive.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:02 pm 
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I have heard shocking a dog that is trying to fight will only make them madder is this true?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:15 pm 
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Chop Mouth
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While the dogs are fighting, grab that dominent or aggressive dog by the collar and put it on its back, like you mean it. Then look down at the dog, still holding it by the collar on its back, and yell "NO". Let that dog know that you are the dominent pack leader. You don't need to beat them but be forceful and hold that dog on its back below you, until it settles down. Useful advice that I have read about and I saw it on The Dog Whisperer on National Geographic. Its called the "pack leader technique".

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:04 pm 
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Bawl Mouth
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i might have to give that a try. Ill prob get bit though lol jk.


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 Post subject: good advice.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:49 pm 
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Silent Mouth
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dominate dogs do force the lesser dog on its back. Very good technique for training a dog of your dominace. Good advice there.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:01 pm 
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Bawl Mouth
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anyone ever tried this?


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