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 Post subject: Question on 3-year old
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:25 am 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 93
Location: MI
Hey everyone. I've got a question on a 3-year old English (Wilcox) gyp I've posted about before.

First a bit of history: I am firm believer in "starting slow" on training and hunting and didn't mess with her at all until she was 9 months old and I wasn't taking her hunting until she was about 13 months old. I have two older, decent dogs that she's hunted with a very little, but 90% of her hunting and training time was on her own. Her first two seasons I've averaged hunting her alone about 2-3 nights a week. My other two dogs are both 9 and they rest more than hunt these days :). She showed good potential her first season and made tremendous strides from Year 1 to Year 2 of hunting, last fall/winter/spring turning into a nice little pleasure hound. I've only caught her running deer once and she's not done it again, and I've NEVER had a possum in a tree. Her first season there were a few slick trees, but last season she was very accurate and almost always saw the coon.

Most of the areas I hunt I park and walk. She's a fairly close hunter, usually out there between 100 and 400 yards and checks in every 15-20 minutes or so. She's very thorough, seeming to sniff about every square inch of ground, and I've not noticed her cruising past more than a coon or two...the few times she's hunted with other dogs she trees a lot split on trees the other dogs blew past and gets a good amount of lay-ups.

I have hunted her with two of my brother-in-laws dogs two times in a different part of the state and she's not done well. She doesn't get far from me and checks back a lot more often. Only twice has she hunted with them other dogs, once backing them up and another time splitting, but usually not hunting real hard. I tossed it up to strange land, strange dogs, and usually dropping shortly after a 4-hour drive, and those dogs having to hunt harder for coons...they hit the ground running hard. I used to live there and my dogs were all that way until I moved to a part of the state with more coons. I wasn't too worried since she's hunted fine for me individually.

However, I would like her to get out on her own more now. She finished the spring very strong, but I've only hunted her maybe 5 times since April 15 (closed running season and then very hot summer). For the most part, she's shown less interest in getting out there. She's never been one to hit the ground running hard...instead she starts sniffing right around the truck and eases out into the woods ahead of us walking. Lately, I've wanted to walk a little less from the start and let her go without me right behind backing her up. I'll sit on a log and wait for her to leave, and she'll go maybe 40 yards and come back and sniff hard around me, but not getting more than 40 or 50 yards away. She'll also tree hard on a tree for about 10 seconds, and then fall away from it and keep hunting.

Last night I hunted her in a new swamp and my buddy and I just stayed at the truck for a few minutes until she got out there on her own and ended up treeing about 30 yards into the swamp. We then let her go again and she just messed around within 80 yards, going out, hunting, coming back every 5 minutes or so. We started easing in behind her and she got out 200 yards and treed one. We then went to a new spot and she caught one on the ground in a beanfield. After that, she was back to her old self for the rest of the night, keeping out ahead of us a few hundred yards and treeing another coon and hunting hard.

My question comes from just wanting to know how I can get her to show a little more drive to "get gone" on her own. As I've said, she's seemed to have lost some of that drive since last spring (although not over very many hunts) and I would like to see if it's not too late for her to get gone on her own the minute she hits the ground instead of milling around for a bit first. I don't mind her at all checking in, but then I want her to get right back out there again like she used too. I've had dogs kind of regress for a short period between season 1 and season 2 in the past, I've never had one who has regressed at this age. I don't believe I've done anything to "burn her out". She's still a nice little pleasure hound, just would like some tips about possibly getting her to push out without needing me following behind right away. I don't know if the way we've hunted has already made her into a dog that is always going to make sure I'm comiong behind, too. The rest of my dogs have always been "get gone and not come back till we find something". That was usually good and bad. I'd like a mix between that and what she was.

I just got a new pup and thought she'd be a decent pup trainer since she doesn't trash and isn't ill and is accurate. But I'm not going to use her for that if she stays like this...want to see a little more drive.

Thanks for the help.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:19 am 
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Chop Mouth
Chop Mouth

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 259
Location: MO
be sure that you are feeding good high energy feed. might try leaving her in box or tied to fence while other dogs are out running. a couple of turnouts of having to stand and listen to that and not getting to go will usually get a dog pretty excited about wanting to go. stop walk hunting, dump her, and if she is going to find a coon she will have to go hunt for it, alone. if she comes right back load her up and try again the next night. sounds like she can already tree a coon on her own, so just let that happen, but dont do her any favors. set it up so that she will have to hunt farther to make it happen. a feeder a 1/4 mile or farther from the road might be useful to encourage her to go a little farther looking for coon.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:43 pm 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 93
Location: MI
Thanks for the response. I hunted her Monday night and she acted the same. She did catch one on the ground and that got her fired up. I then took her last night and after 30 minutes of her not doing much I loaded her and went home. Tonight she did even less and I loaded her after 25 minutes. I'm getting frustrated because I know what she is capable of.

I am worried she may have something wrong with her. She's not been eating well for a week or so and her energy at home and in the woods is down quite a bit. I wonder if I should change her food.

I also got a new pup Saturday that she is a little unsure about, but that sure better not factor into her hunting.

I'm thinking of getting a coon and letting it go for her to get a hot one going and see what that does. Do you guys think that's a good approach? I really like this dog both for what she's done in the woods and how she handles and behaves at home. I'm willing to take a few steps back to get her progressing again...just hope she gets past this.

I also think I may take her to the vet and make sure she's ok. SheS gone through streaks where she hasnt eaten well before, especially in the heat, but it's never affected her hunting or energy level at home or the woods.

Any additional input would still be appreciated. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:52 pm 
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Chop Mouth
Chop Mouth

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 259
Location: MO
i never do like to turn loose a coon in front of a dog that likes to stay close, makes em want to keep staying close. might do it only once, then next time carry coon 50 yards or 100 yards, however far you think she will hunt, then turn it loose there and make her hunt in to strike it. sounds like there could be a health issue but that is probably not all of the problem. get her healthy, work with her some, and if she doesnt come around you might want to get something different.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:00 am 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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Location: MI
Thanks showmecoon. I should have been more clear...my plan is to let one go at around 75 yards (about the max she'll range out) without her seeing it and then either help her or let her run across it and get it started.

Like I said, I'm willing to put in some more time than maybe normal on this one, but I need to see some glimmer of hope.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 15
Location: NY
had the same problem with my dog and I brought her to the vet and found she had lymes disease! put her on antibiotics and she seems to be coming around again. Talked to another guy after he had the same thing now his dog is in the top 10 in the state. It sucks because I was ready to get rid of her i wish they could tell you they dont feel good. She showed no signs but would quit hunting and find her way to the truck 3 times in a row. took her once and she went didnt tree but she went out and checked in and went back out


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:23 am 
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Chop Mouth
Chop Mouth

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
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Location: MO
derek, that is a great idea and it's a great exercise to do with any dog that is just getting started. you know that the hot track is there and a coon turned loose in a strange area miles from where it was caught will usually run up the first tree it comes to. it's very much like a natural strike, track and tree situation, but is an easy coon for them. make sure your dog is healthy first, though.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:28 am 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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Location: MI
Thanks guys. I talked to the vet yesterday and I'm going to take her in Saturday. She didn't eat a drop yesterday, but I was walking around the backyard carrying my headlamp and she went berserk, which is her normal reaction when she sees it and knows hunting time is coming. She hadn't acted like that the past few days.

So I thought I'd load her and see what happened. She hunted closer to her old self. I had to first ease in behind her the first 20 yards or so, but then she took off on her own. The lack of eating over the past week was obviously taking its toll, as she was looked pretty pooped pretty fast, but she was hunting hard and with enthusiasm like she used too.

She treed once where I couldn't find the coon through the leaves and then struck another track, ran it about 200 yards, and put a little guy up a tree. I let her tree a few minutes and then leashed her and took her home. I wanted to leave on a good note and she was definitely wanting more...plus if she isn't in good shape right now I wasn't going to overdo it.

I'm going to take her to the vet and probably lay her up a few days (barring something being really wrong with her where she has to sit longer). It was an encouraging turn, however.

Thanks again for the comments...much appreciated.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:04 am 
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Chop Mouth
Chop Mouth

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
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Location: MO
good deal!


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