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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:25 am 
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Bawl Mouth
Bawl Mouth

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 655
Location: TN
Has anyone had any experience with Heartguard/ivermectin causing seizures in thier hound?

Do you know what caused them?

I've got a buddy with a 14 week old pup who started having seizures last Wednesday. He is bringing her to me today to see if I can take care of her or do anything for her.

They're not sure if it has anything to do with it, but she had her first seizure about 4-6 hours after giving her a HeartGuard chewable. She's had them every day since then and sometimes 3 times a day. The vets can't determine what's causing them and I've read that some dogs can have a reaction to the ivermectin in HeartGuard... we're hoping that maybe when it gets out of her system, she might stop having them... if not, we're looking at having to possibly put her down, unless she responds well to the phenol-barbitol and potassium bromide they started giving her Monday (which takes a week or so to build up in her system before it makes a difference)... then we'll probably try to find her a pet home if we can.

Just wanted to see if anyone else has had any experience in this...

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Last edited by Maverick061106 on Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Seizures in hounds?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:57 am 
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Tight Mouth
Tight Mouth

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 122
Location: GA
Haven't heard of it around here. Knew of an older dog from Ms. having them a few years back, vets never did figure out what was causing them.

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 Post subject: Re: Seizures in hounds?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:07 am 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 11
I know of three dogs who have had the seizures. Two of them were from the same litter, so we believed it to be genetic. The other dog had seizures for a while until my buddy started to give him a honey bun once a week. The seizures reduced and aren't a problem as of now. One of the pups I mentioned had the seizures two or three times in the yard and got mean while my buddies little boy was playing in the yard and he had her put down, as he was scared she might get mean around his kid while they were playing together. The second of the pups was saved though. I informed my buddy of the other dog that gets the honey buns and he started giving her marsh mellows before hunting every friday night. Her seizures have ceased and she is fine. For these reasons I believe the seizure problem to be caused by a lack of sugar in some cases. Try a honey bun or a couple of the big marsh mellows before you put a dog down.

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 Post subject: Re: Seizures in hounds?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:20 am 
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Silent Mouth
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Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Michigan
Best thing you can do if that pup continues to have seizures is put it down.

I had a cur that started having seizures just before he was 2. I spent all kinds of money at the vet on all kinds of drugs to try to control his seizures. Nothing worked. I even tried natural remedies. The more seizures they have the more they will have. It only gets worse. It's a terrible thing to have to deal with. I had to stop hunting this dog all together on Coon cause the excitement would make him seizure every time out. I did hunt him on squirrels after this and he never did seizure while squirrel hunting. His seizures continued till he was 5 and then one day I came home to find him dead in his crate.

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 Post subject: Re: Seizures in hounds?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:43 pm 
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I had a dog with seizures. Her's were cluster seizures so she'd have multiple ones for a couple days and then none for a period of time. They were substantially reduced as she got older. At a young age it'd be once a month. By the time she was 8 only once a year. During a seizure the dog is unconscious (even though they yelp) so the seizure itself doesn't hurt the dog. The bad part is when they are coming out of it and are sore and hurting and terrified because they don't know what's going on. Phenobarbitol helped my dog but it was not the 100% cure wonder drug.
Try the pheno and potassium bromide, see if they work. I have known quite a few dogs that had very few seizures after taking meds.
If even after taking a good dose of the meds the dog is still having seizures every day, then I'd start having to think very hard about what I'd do. Hopefully you won't have to make that kind of decision. Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: delete
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:26 am 
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Silent Mouth
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Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 76
Location: Florida
Seizures can be caused by many different factors, from nutritional deficiencies to genetic deficiencies. The genetic deficiencies can be minor (and outgrown) all the way to major (and fatal).

I personally had a strain of dogs where maybe 1 out of every 25 pups would have intermittant grand mal seizures that would last for maybe 2 weeks to a month. The "seizure period" might start anywhere from the age of 3 months to maybe 8 months ... and after they got through their seizure period they'd never get them again.

I never saw any reason to put them down, nor did I go to a vet to try to control their seizures. I just separated the pups when they were like that so the other ones didn't take advantage (play tug-o-war with their fallen brother, etc.), and kept them in a crate inside for a time.

Not one of the seizure pups ever died. Not one of them ever had a seizure as an adult. All of them stopped having seizures before a year of age, and many of them grew up to be first class, athletic dogs in every way.

I realize each situation is different. As a breeder of performance dogs, if I personally had an adult that repeatedly had seizures so bad it couldn't do its job, I would either put the dog down or give it to someone who had the time/money to devote to a "pet"; but I sure wouldn't feed it or breed it. I would be gentle and kind to the dog, and I would try for awhile to see if recovery were possible, but if recovery proved not to be possible I would cull it from my yard.

As a breeder, I personally (1) would never waste my money keeping an adult dog on drugs to control its seizures. I would give the dog maybe up to a month of loving care and rest, but if I found the animal couldn't survive w/o meds, then I would put it down as defective or find it a home {if someone else were willing to give it that kind of attention to a defective dog}. Yet, (2) saying that, in my own personal experience (with my line of dogs), I never had to put a single dog down over seizures. Every pup of mine got better on its own. A couple of the pups really needed some intense care for a few weeks ... and would go in-and-out of seizures during their "seizure period" ... but after they finally came out of it, they were fine---and they stayed fine for life--growing up to be fully-capable animals.

As breeders of working dogs, we have to judge our dogs as adults. And if anything genetic prevents an adult dog from doing its job, then that is a major fault and the dog at the very least shouldn't be bred. And, to my way of thinking, if an adult dog can't even stay alive on its own without drugs, then I for one don't see the sense in keeping it around. I would either humanely dispose of the animal or (if I could find someone willing to care for it) I would give it away.

Again, different dogs from different lines may have different physiological reasons for having seizures, but that is what I found to be true with my dogs 100% of the time any of them had seizures.

Jack

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:54 am 
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Bawl Mouth
Bawl Mouth

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
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Location: TN
The pup has not had any seizures for a while now and I have taken her off the meds, because they seemed to be doing more harm than good. She is now in the best state she has been in since she got here, and we are planning on taking her home Saturday morning (along with a new sister for her lol).

I and many others feel that the HeartGuard had something to do with her seizures - even if it wasn't actually the cause, perhaps the ivermectin triggered something in her to start them. Whatever it was, hopefully they will not return... she'll certainly never receive ivermectin again in her life.

We are just ecstatic that she is better and most of all that she is HAPPY again... it is a terribly heartbreaking thing to see a pup so drugged that she couldn't even get out of her (small) food bowl when she fell headfirst into it one morning... this among many other terrible things we've seen since this started.

There was a time when she would cry constantly - didn't want food or water and there was nothing we could do for her...I am so glad we were able to stick it out until now, since we were seriously thinking about having to put her down at one point...


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