Mr Hawke, I couldn't have said it better myself.For those who have never spoke in a heavenly language, it is not comprehendable to them. But if they ever would let the spirit give them that chance they would forever be changed in there walk with christ.Not trying to imply that anyones walk with God is less than mine if they haven't spoke in tongues,but it is like eating a icecube verses a popcicle. There both water,just one has more flavor than the other.

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I'm relatively new to this site, so I'll probably be a bit reserved in my answers for a while. First let me say this... Praise be to God that there is a place where men with common interests and hobbies can also discuss their zeal for our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. On the topic of tongues...

I have just recently done a study covering the aspects of the Holy Spirit within the Bible and through the course of (Biblical) history. I have never been in a church that spoke in tongues. The Church I was raised in is very reserved. Not a dead Church, mind you... just very reserved. They still hold fast to Choir and Hymn music even though some of the younger generation is trying to introduce more contemporary music. People worship in a multitude of different ways. None are necessarily more flavorful than the other. Pauls analogy members of the Church being as members of the body. If your entire body was composed of nothing but brains, then you could think but never perform action. Likewise with nothing but hands but no brains, anything that would be accomplished would be doomed for failure.

Here are a few examples of some gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Exodus 31:1-5 God chooses Bezalil to perform much of the artistic work on the temple. God gives him wisdom and knowledge of many different skills.

I Chronicles 28:12 David gives the plans for the temple to Solomon. The Bible clearly says that these plans were given to David via the Holy Spirit.

I Samuel 16:9 Saul is prophesying in the Spirit.

Daniel 1:17 God gives Daniel the ability to interpret dreams and visions of all kinds.

I'll not take up too much time... I just wanted to remind all that the Holy Spirit didn't just come at the Pentecost. God gives some great strength to defend and protect. He gives some knowledge to build great things in Gods name. He gives some beautiful voices and musical ability to glorify God in song. He gives some the ability to interpret, and some the ability to speak in tongues.

Moral of the story? All gifts are from the Spirit, each one to be used to glorify God. If you glorify in tongues, then wonderful. If I glorify in music, or security, mechanical ability, counseling, small group leader, or whatever my spiritual gift... then that is equally as wonderful.

I think there are quiet a few true Christians who view the ability to speak in tongues with distrust. I'm sure, through the course of the Church or even the past 5 years, that someone has spoken in tongues not to edify God or the Church... but to fit in. I honestly used to have that distrust, but no more. One more thing that I have learned in my walk with Christ. The ice to popsicle analogy... you have truly found your spiritual gift. I believe that God provides a gift to every one of us that is unique to us, and when we use that gift, whatever it may be, to glorify him it is truly like the popsicle analogy. DON'T be fooled into applying that only to tongues. Give all glory to God, and bless you all my brothers in Christ!

Joey

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For we who are strong out to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not please ourselves.
Romans 15:1

You seem to be very wise Mr. wheeler, I belong to a apostolic pentecostal church, where 8 years ago i finally found the lord after a diffecult 30 years without him.Although our beliefs in our church are usually more old fasioned than most churches today, i have found that our demonination tends to think that they have it perfectly right compared to others. In my studies of the bible,Since God did give me a mind of my own, I have found that you are more right than not. We as Christians should accept that Christ died for all, and the Holy spirit does direct each believer in different ways.If speaking in tongues was the only gift, then the word wouldn't have talked about the rest of them.I do believe in the gift of tongues, for the spirit has allowed me to receive it, and yes i have seen my share of false tonges in the church and on tv.But on the subject of tongues, you will have people nomatter what that will give a good thing a bad rap just for how they appear to others. I do believe that one of the gifts of the spirit is disernment for a believer. We must all do the best we can to live right before the lord ,for one day we shall se him.

EVERY powerful, soul winning man of God I have ever met never spoke in toungues. Tongues fell silent for many, many years and was revived by a WOMAN preacher. It is a sham. I have attended some very well known tongue speaking churches all over the south and it is all fake. TALL of the major pentecostal "helaers" on TV use and believe in tongues. That should tell you something.

Which ones have you met?

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Hogguide, i am sorry that you have been apart of the fake side of the tongue talking movement, but what part of this world do you not find fakes in it? You will always find people that will do things for show or personal reasons, but that does not mean that it's all fake.You need to experience it for yourself,before you judge others,and also find out some more facts as to what you believe before you condem others for what they believe.

WHERE THERE'S A FAKE, THERE HAS GOT TO BE THE ORIGINAL!!!!! POINT, DOT, PERIOD.

Folks, Tongues is over with, has been for centuries. Those who believe in it are "dispensationally challenged". The same folks who believe in tongues believe that you dont receive the Holy Ghost until sometime after you get saved. That is unbiblical. I cans ee where people can get confused and actually use scripture to support their skewed theology but when one finally learns to "rightly divide the word of God" as we are instructed to do in the Bible it becomes very clear. \
I have sat in many pentecostal, "tongue speaking", and listened to those with the "special gifts of healing and power". The same preachers who on Sunday mornings are sitting there selling their 1 ounce bottles of water they have prayed over and towlettes that have special healing powers , ripping homebound grandmas off for hundreds of dollars a year.


It is a sham. Isnt it odd that the great preahcers opf the last 2 centuries like Spurgeon, Ironsides, Billy Sunday, Oliver B. Greene, William P. Grady, Whitfield, MaClaren, Maze Jackson tpo name a very few never spoke in tongues, never condoned it, and yet saw hundreds of thousands saved.

I am sure the folks in tongue speaking churches are earnest peoploe. So are mormons, Jehoviah Witnesses, and others. But their doctrine and beliefs arfe wrong.

As in any religion based debate, it is best to come to the table with scripture reference verses, not just your opinion, until you can do so, it is just that, "your opinion" which is also fine because that is why this country was founded,so that we can all have our own. God bless you brother no matter what your belief.

The Bible plainly teaches that "tongues" was one of the first century sign gifts directing unbelieving Jews to Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah, and to the Apostles' genuine message of Christ. Further, less that forty years after Christ returned to heaven, the sign gifts ceased because after Jerusalem and the Temple in Jerusalem were destroyed in 70 AD, Israel ceased being a nation, the Jews were dispersed, and the Kingdom postponed because Israel had rejected Jesus as their Messiah. With Israel destroyed there was no longer any need or purpose for the sign gifts and they ceased. During this transitional period between the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem, most of the New Testament was written which further cancelled the need for signs because the churches now had God's written word.
Some think that tongues is only practiced by Christian denominations, but it is a phenomena found also in pagan religions. The Oracle at Delphi, for instance, which started in the 400s BC, when Greece was at its strongest, records the pagan practice of using ecstatic speech in the worship of their false gods. It continued into the Roman era which would indicate that members of the churches in Greece and Asia Minor would have been familiar with how the Oracle at Delphi worked. It was a shrine to the Greek god Apollo. In response to someone's questions, a priestess would go into a frenzy and start a babbling speech. An attendant priest would then 'translate' the babble into some glittering generalities that could in some way be understood as an answer. Some of the best-known features of Greek philosophy streamed out from the Oracle's early years (for instance, it bred the saying "Know Yourself"); the great Greek philosophers were very good at finding "jewels in waste water". The cult of Dionysis used rhythmic music, whirling dances, alcohol or herbal drugs, and magic spells with the intent of driving peoples' souls out of their bodies (Gk ek stasis) and into the presence of whatever deity or sub deity was involved; this also occasionally induced some strange sounds. African animists, too, have long practiced ecstatic speech as part of their religion. But, just as glossolalia among Jews marked one as a prophet, glossolalia caused most African animists to project the tongues speaker into the role of religious leader or priest.

What is practiced as modern tongues is not what happened on the Day of Pentecost as described by the New Testament. Absent today from the modern practice of tongues is ". . .sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." (Acts 2:2-3) Further, each of those present at Pentecost were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the Gospel in a language that the person had not learned. "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. (Acts 2:6) Verses 9-11 lists the sixteen languages which were spoken. It was not ecstatic speech or used in prayer nor was it something they were coached to perform. Further it was not sought or prayed for but came instantly being given by the Holy Spirit to all present. Further, as the passage states, it was given by the Holy Spirit for the benefit of those Jews who were in Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Pentecost and convey to them the Good News that Jesus Christ was the Messiah.
In 1 Corinthians 13:8-10, Paul clearly states that tongues would cease as well as "prophecies" and "knowledge." "Prophecies" and "knowledge" are both references to the supernatural writing of the Scriptures. The question is why did Paul single out prophesies, tongues and knowledge as being temporary? It is unmistakable that he says these things would cease.

The context of this passage is Paul addressing the improper use of the sign gifts and explaining what they truly were. In the middle of the discourse Paul gives us a contrast or illustration. He uses love (charity) as an example of something that will never cease. "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. " (1 Cor. 13:8) He says love would not cease, but prophecy, tongues and knowledge would. Each of these three things deals with God giving forth His revelation to man. In other words, Paul says that the writing and completion of God's Word would in time stop. The word "prophecies" is plural and refers to many prophecies. The word is made up of two Greek words "pro" meaning "before" and "phemi" meaning "to speak." Literally it means to "speak before." Its primary use was in speaking "before" people and preaching or proclaiming the Word of God. Its normal meaning was not "foretelling" or predicting the future, but rather preaching the Word of God before people. In the early churches the Apostles literally spoke the Word of God that was not yet written. This is what the passage is referring to. After 95 AD, when the canon of Scripture was complete by the writing of the Book of Revelation, this type of prophecy ended. From that point on the "teacher" has been used of God to prophesy what God had recorded in the written Word of God. Therefore Paul said that in time the giving of revelation from God, which was the written Word of God, would end.

It can only be concluded that modern day tongues is not of God, because it is not supported by the New Testament. Further, what is occurring seems to be learned or contrived emotional experiences prompted by the denominations who teach this false doctrine.

This is not saying that many of the people involved in the movement are not saved. Salvation is only determined by whether a person has, with his heart, believed and received Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. Christians can believe and practice unbiblical things. That is apparent in that in every New Testament Epistle, except Philemon, God is dealing with believers who were being taught some false teaching.

You say "temporary", well Jesus' leaving was temporary too. He is not yet come back. When the word of God says or indicates "a little while" it generally means in His terms which to us is a long time. You say the gifts stopped at a particular time but I don't see anything to back that up. Just because you don't see church references of a specific time does not mean something stopped. Through history Christians were persecuted and killed so it is not exactly a surprise that a lot of information is simply not going to be available. There are millions of Christians today who know tongues is alive and well. You are citing references to pagan religions as evidence of a gift of the Holy Spirit and how that gift operates which is simply wrong. There is no comparison except in what it looks like to someone else. You simply have not seen or heard the tongues of fire and the rushing wind or you'd know better. I have seen, heard, experienced all of them and I can attest they are currently in use. Tongues is not simply an emotional stuttering when a person is overwhelmed by feelings. Many times when I pray in tongues I am far from being in an emotional state. The time during which Israel fell apart has nothing to do with it since even non-Jews received the Holy Spirit when they believed. Sometimes the Spirit is received alone and sometimes with the laying on of hands. It does not always have signs like fire and wind. Stop trying to put God in a box. He does not fit. The only box that can come close to holding Him is the bible.

Joel mentioned discernment as one of the God given gifts and I would like to discuss it further. First I would concider it more than other gifts.It is a Christians best way of recognizing and comunicating with other true Christians. It is also how we are to communicate with the Holy Spirit. In fact as we grow in discernment the will of God should be more apparent in our lives, through that discernment we should feel the will of God in others and find unamimity within Gods word. Also we find our own spiritual discernment blends with the Holy Spirit so that we are enabled to live in God's will for us rather than our old worldly selves.
I am not always in this spirit of discernment but hopefully will continue to grow in it.

The adversary always duplicates what the lord has. Study that out. "the trinity of god, the trinity of the devil" He is a deciever, period. What God has for the church the devil will duplicate it so as to lead astray all those that he can. He doesnot have to be a" roaring lion" he can simply be a liar and let us do the rest.But as for you hogguide, you have brought your opinion to the table using sripture,as i asked and i greatly appreciate that, any bible based talk is good talk. God bless.

Joel, I assureyou I am not trying to put "God in a box". I am sorry my friend, but tongues arent real. Tongue believers and the other pentecostal type of people need to understand how the Bible is divided and how it is to be discerned.

The second I repoented and trusted Christ asmy saviour I was given the gift of the Holy Spirit. And he hasnt left me yet. That is the only wqay you can get the Holy Spirit. You cant be given it by laying on of hands of speaking in tongues. I understand how you have been indoctrinated intop this belief and I understand how people feel they are doing this naturally when in reality they have taight themsleves how to do it.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I have been there, done that. And no amount of reasoing would convince me I was wrong until Gd showed my the errors of my way and led me out of that type of congregation.

Acts 8:17 "Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands....."

Acts 19:6 "When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied."