Arachyd...One world you and others seem to fail to understand...

DISPENSATION......


RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF GOD

The laying on of hands gave an external picture of the bestowing of any gift, but it was not required for God to act. We must understand that the laying on of hands was symbolic. It does not make something happen and it has no magical power. God can work with it or without it. However, it adds gravity to a serious act and graphically shows the giving and receiving of certain gifts.


Folks, I can take 2-3 scriptures and make them fit any belief I may have and make it seem right.

As for Spiritual gifts...Please check out this webpage that ges into minute detail about why signs and tongues and other gifts are no longer with us. http://www.learnthebible.org/q_a_gifts_ ... spirit.htm

It is plain and simple and 100% God's word. If you have a problem with it confront God....he said it, not I.

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"Folks, I can take 2-3 scriptures and make them fit any belief I may have and make it seem right. "
Funny, I only posted scripture. I didn't say anything in that post but you still want to argue about it. Hmmmm.

Yes, sir, I believe you can and do make them fit your beliefs. I, however know what I know and if I can't convince you it is not worth arguing about. Salvation is the bottom line and that is what really matters. You will never convince me that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ended because I have experienced them and no matter how you interpret things and explain your opinions my bible tells me those gifts are real, relevant, useful, desireable, and in no way indicates they have ended. I would certainly appreciate your not calling my beliefs and experiences (and those of millions of other Christians) a sham.

I read the information you linked to. It appears to be a lot of personal opinion and picking/choosing favored scriptures and ignoring other scriptures that are not of the favored opinion. It does not give a valid reason for the belief that the gifts were to end. Why would God give a gift and then take it away as no longer necessary when the world is getting worse and more dangerous every day? If unbelievers needed a sign then what makes you think they don't need one now? Just because the New Testament was written does not mean unbelievers are going to pick one up and read it so it is an absolutely indefensible argument to claim that tongues wasn't needed since the Word of God was finally put in writing. Tongues is not only a sign, it is a very useful gift for believers. The link you supplied only considers it as a sign but not in its capacity to help in giving praise, thanks, and prayer. You are still trying to put God in a box.

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Like I said...I will agree to disagree.

I have come out of the tongue churches. I have been to MANY, MANY, MANY of them. I used to believe I was speaking in a "heavenly language" myself. They are shams. Some members actually believe they are speaking in tongues. I did as well. But their doctrine is fullof holes. And after a 3 year, in depth study pf the Bible and finally hearing some real preaching that was Biblically sound, the Holy Spirit showed me I was wrong. I have been in churches where no tonuges are spoken and yet soul's are saved at every service. And unlike the Tongue speaking Pentecostal churches I used to attend, the saved actually come back and attend regularly after their conversion.
The tongue speakers are no different than the snake handlers who think they are handling snakes, as Gods' word "commands" or drinking arsenic. They use scripture that is OUT OF CONTEXT and make it THEIR DOCTRINE. Many denominations do it. Just like the Church of Christ folks who preach water baptism as essential for salvation and the Seventh Day Adventist folks who believe that Saturday is the only day God honors worship. Many are saved folk. Some arent. The sad thing is they let their "uneducation" of Dispensational order of the Bible lead them down the path to erroneous beliefs and Bible doctrine.

arachyd....A couple of questions for you. I will reply no further after this post.

1. Does your church always have an interpreter at the services when someone begins spekaing in tongues and do they interpret correctly?


2. What do you really believe happened at Pentecost?? Do you not understand that MANY nations were there and when the they spoke of Christ the different nations present there heard what they were saying in their own, native dialect. It wasnt a "special prayer language", or a heavenly tongue. The Jews heard Hebrew, the Greek heard, greek, etc, etc.

3.The phenomenon of Speaking in Tongues that is seen in the Christian churches today is relatively new. It did not start to enter into some churches until the early 1900’s. This raises the question. If what we are seeing today is the genuine gift of the Holy Spirit that empowered the disciples at Pentecost, allowing them to go into all nations and preach the gospel in the native tongue of those they came across, why was it absent from the church for over 1800 years?

We are warned in the Bible that in the end times there will be a huge outpouring of false miracles, signs and wonders that will deceive much of the Christian world. Mark 13:22 “For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.”

Speaking in tongues is found in the zar cult and various spirits in Haitian Voodoo. It is practised in non-Christian religions among the Eskimos, Japanese séances in Hokkaido, in a small cult led by Genji Yanagide of Moji City, in Malaysia, Indonesia, Siberia, Arabia, Burma, Japan, Korea, China and Arctic regions, the shamans in Ethiopia and is also found extensively in African tribal religions. History also shows that it was present among many pagan religions many years before Pentecost.
The speaking in tongues that we find in most Christian churches today bears far more resemblance to the tongues spoken in the above non-Christian religions than it does to the wonderful miracle that God gave to the early disciples in order to spread the gospel message to the world.

I know a missionary who I believe has been given THE REAL gift of tongues. He can go to a foreign country and speak a language he barely knows well enough to convey the Gospel message. It is quite amazing to see. The tongues he uses is the type used at pentecostand the earlydays of the organized church...not the babbling, unkknown jibber jabber that the tongue speakers relish in today.

Anyone who is preaching that if you do not have the gift of speaking in tongues that you have not received the Holy Spirit is directly contradicting the scriptures. Those who go one step further and pronounce that if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved are speaking a lie. 1 Corinthians 12:28 “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.”

God Bless

You simply do not or will not understand. Tongues is not ONLY a sign to unbelievers. Just as prayer is not only to get things for someone. Just as healing is not only so someone can go to work. Just as prophecy is not so you can know who you're going to marry someday. Tongues is more than that. Why do you insist on calling it babble just because you do not understand what is being said? It may not be being said to you. Paul said when he prayed in an unknown tongue his spirit prayed. He said when we speak in tongues we give thanks well. These things are very important even though they don't get a lot of lines in scripture. Tongue talkers are VERY different from snake handlers in that snake handling does nothing to edify anyone while tongues clearly does. Paul did refer to it being a language that can't always be understood (as you say, a special prayer language) when he was talking about benefit to others who would be able to understand our giving thanks better if it was done with the understanding rather than the spirit. He never said anything against speaking in tongues, he only told the people to do it decently and in order-no different than telling little kids not to interrupt the service. It does not mean children are not supposed to ever talk in public, only to use discretion and have proper manners.

At my church it is not considered polite to interrupt a service by bursting into tongues. If it occurs it is usually during general times of praise and worship when everyone can join in. It is not something you can't control. If no one interprets it does not interrupt the service. I have noticed after this happens that after the service I usually hear 1 or 2 people say they thought it was this or that but were not sure then another person says the same. In that case I think it is just our human self-consciousness getting in the way, not a sham attempt to convince people that the speaker is extra holy or something.

At Pentecost God poured out his spirit on the believers gathered there in a way that they could not misunderstand and they began to be bolder and more open in preaching the gospel because they now had the power Jesus talked about.

"We are warned in the Bible that in the end times there will be a huge outpouring of false miracles, signs and wonders that will deceive much of the Christian world. Mark 13:22 “For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.” Well, you are the one saying all you can think of against tongues and then telling us wait, there is one guy that you believe really does speak in this nonexistent, sham gift. That just doesn't make sense. The one that starts convincing the world he is the only one with the true gifts is the antichrist. I've heard many reports of preachers going to other countries and the people understanding what was being said in the language of the preacher. I don't know where you've been hiding but they are not rare instances. Neither are healings and prophecies.

Mentioning other religions and cults that use a form of tongues is not a valid argument. The bible tells us that the devil will copy anything God does. Does that mean that tithes are evil too? Other churches expect, even demand tithes of their congregations. Why do you claim tongues today is different from tongues back in the apostle's time? What is your source of information? Anyone can spend 3 years at something and come away completely wrong. Anyone that thinks they know it all is close to finding out how wrong they really are.

"Anyone who is preaching that if you do not have the gift of speaking in tongues that you have not received the Holy Spirit is directly contradicting the scriptures. Those who go one step further and pronounce that if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved are speaking a lie." I don't know where you get this but I think the bible is quite plain that salvation is through Jesus' death and resurrection-not tongues. Someone thinking they are not saved because they don't use tongues need only read their bible, it's plastered all over the pages. I don't think anyone on here even argues this point. At least I hope not.

By you saying " the Holy Spirit showed you, you were wrong", doesn't that mean that you have a gift from God. Thought you didn't believe in the gifts?. Can you find in the bible where speaking in toungues went along with being saved? Thats like being baptised, they did that every time they were saved also. Should we not baptise either?Iam not an emotional guy, but have spoke in toungues while driving my dumptruck on the road, while having a burden for someone, or something. This was not music enhanced, preacher enhanced or or people enhanced, this was the spirit of god speaking through me for what ever purpose.Who am i trying to impress with "MY" sham holliness when that happens when noones around?One thing straight, Tongues does not save, Jesus saves, it was said to be a sign to others and for prayer, and for edifying the church body.I do believe that the church body will consist of people, not denominations. Black white oriental,asian,maybe even a few catholics, ha ha, live life the best we can with Jesus as the center of it all and he will judge us the right way when it comes our time. We might all be surprised at who he picks when the time comes? One thing for sure, I bet he picks coonhunten christians first, cause were so " dang much fun to be around". Bless all my brothers in Christ.

I said I would not reply but I had to answer...

Joel, The Bible tells us the moment we are saved we have the Holy Spirit to guide us and help us discernt light from darkness. It is a gift, but not oen that I claim to have that others dont. If you are saved, you have it. "it comes with the terrirtory".

Arachyd...The Bible forbids tongues to be spoken without an intepretor.... Are we to go agains tthe Bible?? God isnt the author of confusion.

The NT says that tongues will cease...As will other things. That is plain BIble folks.Nothing more , nothing less.

I will end it at that.

The bible absolutely does NOT forbid tongues without an interpreter. It speaks against those who don't do things in order when believers gathered together. It is a criticism of the way they were holding meetings not a criticism of tongues or an order to stop using tongues in other situations. Please don't add to the bible. Please cite where the bible says tongues will pass away when the bible is written (as you mentioned before). I know it will pass away but not until the gifts are no longer needed. Off the top of my head I can't remember the verse but I'm pretty sure you are taking it out of context.

If you are truly saved it is not necessary to prove it to others by demonstrating a gift you may not be able to demonstrate. We are saved because the Holy Spirit convinces us we need to be when we hear the gospel. The Holy Spirit may be very present in someone who does not actively use the gifts. The Holy Spirit has a lot of influence in our lives, not just enabling us to do things but to repent, learn, and live according to God's will.

arachyd, Arguing back and forth is futile. I can see it will do no good. I know I am right and you know you are. I will keep serving God as I am told and demonstarted in the Bible without tongues, "miraculous" healings, and without the Benny Hinn and Rod Parsley crowd shaping my views. Have a MerryChristmas and a Blessed new Year.

On that post I can say we are 100% in agreement. I think those 2 have demonstrated what they worship and 1 thing is sure. God does not care if the whole world sees-live a sinful life shearing His sheep and claiming it's in His name and He will not try to cover it up and sweep it under the rug He will bring it out in the open.

"The controversy is really not over the question of tongues or other gifts of the Spirit; the real issue regards the reliability of Scripture. Can we believe the New Testament or not? If not, then we need to get honest with the public and quit pretending that we can. If it is reliable, then we need to obey God and preach every part of it with equal force. We have no other option." (On Whose Authority, by Charles Carrin.)

Some people cant talk or speak so there just out of luck so speaking
in tongues is not for every one. other people cant hear so there out of
luck to. So what good is tongues if you cant speak ot here. Lonnie Woodcox

i agree with arachyd i was raised in a holiness church and i have seen the holy spirit work my dad had 6 months to live he lived to see me get grown i was 8 at the time i know god is real and he works for you people who dont believe there is a place for you thanks and god bless

Hogguide

If you will back up and read all my post, you will see that I have already stated a lot of what you are saying. However, not all your opposition will ever concede that you are right. I have pointed out scripture reference after reference. All of which has made not even the slightest dent. It is as the bible says they will have itching ears being mislead. Anyway, I really cannot understand why the very scripture they preach and preach on says they all heard in their own LANGUAGE and they still do not understand.
The truth is the bible is not as deep as most folks try to make it. Simplicity
has and always will be the profundity that confuses the mind.

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RUN’EM DOWN & PUT’EM IN A TREE WITH A WALKER!!!!
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MY SON MY PRIDE AND JOY!!!!

Squarecompass...You are exactly right.Simp0le Biuble confuses too many people. " itching ears" is the culprit.