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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:30 am 
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Ever read Corinthians houndsound? :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:34 pm 
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Hogguide wrote:
Ever read Corinthians houndsound? :shock:


Why make comments like that? Do you really think I haven't read Corinthians? Is there something you want to point out in there please do so. Is there a point you want to make, make it.....as I always say, show in the Bible.... and for some reason instead of showing me, I get comments like that.

There's several threads on this forum where folks tell me I'm being unbiblical, etc... and I show Scripture to support my position and ask for Scripture to support there position... and then I just never hear from them. The question here it seems is wether or not Church is something you attend- I say it's not. The Church is the body of Christ, Him manifest through his children here on earth. I've showed scripture to support that allready in this thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:16 pm 
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Houndsound..I was being sarcastic..Hint.... the funny face.

But Corinthians has letters to several churches..not one giant, universal church body. (Yes, We are part of one giant "church" if we are saved but that doesnt mean we are not to organize and worship locally with like minded, born again believers)

In Cornithians, Each church was having different problems within it's "congregation"and the letters address them and even name people from within them.

It is pretty clear that there was organized, church bodies within each town and area and that they were attending and worshipping regularly.

I could round up numerous scriptures that show this quite clearly but I have some taxidermy work I need to attend to and plan on getting my new Wipeout pupput tonight for a hunt . Maybe tonight late or tomorrow.

Church membership isnt a sign of salvation and has nothing to do with being saved but the Bible says we are to be baptized and join with believers in worship once we are saved.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:54 pm 
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Hogguide wrote:
Houndsound..I was being sarcastic..Hint.... the funny face.

But Corinthians has letters to several churches..not one giant, universal church body. (Yes, We are part of one giant "church" if we are saved but that doesnt mean we are not to organize and worship locally with like minded, born again believers)

In Cornithians, Each church was having different problems within it's "congregation"and the letters address them and even name people from within them.

It is pretty clear that there was organized, church bodies within each town and area and that they were attending and worshipping regularly.

I could round up numerous scriptures that show this quite clearly but I have some taxidermy work I need to attend to and plan on getting my new Wipeout pupput tonight for a hunt . Maybe tonight late or tomorrow.

Church membership isnt a sign of salvation and has nothing to do with being saved but the Bible says we are to be baptized and join with believers in worship once we are saved.


The Church in each town, was all the believers in that town.... they didn't have any concept of different Church's in one town. The Church Paul was addressing was a group of believers in a geographic area, usually a city. Yes- we are to meet with other believers for worship, teaching, encouragement, accountability- etc....... but there is nothing, to say it should be in a church building that we have to join... there's nothing to say I can't meet with fellow believers at the local cafe over a burger, or meet with fellow believers in the woods following hounds around, or meet with fellow believers in my home.

To say because Paul addressed a group of believers in the city of Corinth, that means we're supposed to "attend Church"????? I just don't follow any logic there. And while yes it's true that Paul was addressing the believers in Corinth with that letter- let me ask you- does that letter have any authority or relevance to you? If you say it does then I suppose you can't use your argument that it was only for a local congregation. And we also know that most of Paul's letters, even though they were meant for a local congreation, would circulate among believers in other cities an be read to them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:52 pm 
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houndsound wrote:

The Church in each town, was all the believers in that town.... they didn't have any concept of different Church's in one town. The Church Paul was addressing was a group of believers in a geographic area, usually a city. Yes- we are to meet with other believers for worship, teaching, encouragement, accountability- etc....... but there is nothing, to say it should be in a church building that we have to join... there's nothing to say I can't meet with fellow believers at the local cafe over a burger, or meet with fellow believers in the woods following hounds around, or meet with fellow believers in my home.

To say because Paul addressed a group of believers in the city of Corinth, that means we're supposed to "attend Church"????? I just don't follow any logic there. And while yes it's true that Paul was addressing the believers in Corinth with that letter- let me ask you- does that letter have any authority or relevance to you? If you say it does then I suppose you can't use your argument that it was only for a local congregation. And we also know that most of Paul's letters, even though they were meant for a local congreation, would circulate among believers in other cities an be read to them.


Houndsound...The churches(people, not buildings) were well organized. Yes, they set aside designated days of the week to worship , went to the streets to wtiness, etc. All is told about within the new testament.

We are taught in the new TEstament what the qualifications of a bishop(pastor) are as well. The apostolic church often met on a daily basis: "And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ" (Acts 5:42). Hebrews 10:25 tells us, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." Therefore, the closer we get to the end of this age, the more often we should meet together as a church.

I think you were being very liberal with what I meant the word "church" to mean. There is something wrong with someone who claims to be cleansed by the blood of Christ and yet does not yearn for fellowship nand prayer with fellow believers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:58 pm 
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houndsound wrote:
[/b]

and yea you should read your bible! how else would you no our god/jesus....![/quote]


I don't know.... how did the millions of believers know God/Jesus before the printing press??????[/quote]


In the begining God was there and talked to adam and eve every day
then adam told his kids and they told there kids and it just keep going
like that then one day there was the press. Lonnie Woodcox


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:37 pm 
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The Revelation

CHAPER 1 V 4 To the seven churches which are in Asia. Who is
he talking to one person or a church building with a lot of people.
Lonnie Woodcox


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:09 pm 
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Hogguide wrote:
houndsound wrote:

The Church in each town, was all the believers in that town.... they didn't have any concept of different Church's in one town. The Church Paul was addressing was a group of believers in a geographic area, usually a city. Yes- we are to meet with other believers for worship, teaching, encouragement, accountability- etc....... but there is nothing, to say it should be in a church building that we have to join... there's nothing to say I can't meet with fellow believers at the local cafe over a burger, or meet with fellow believers in the woods following hounds around, or meet with fellow believers in my home.

To say because Paul addressed a group of believers in the city of Corinth, that means we're supposed to "attend Church"????? I just don't follow any logic there. And while yes it's true that Paul was addressing the believers in Corinth with that letter- let me ask you- does that letter have any authority or relevance to you? If you say it does then I suppose you can't use your argument that it was only for a local congregation. And we also know that most of Paul's letters, even though they were meant for a local congreation, would circulate among believers in other cities an be read to them.


Houndsound...The churches(people, not buildings) were well organized. Yes, they set aside designated days of the week to worship , went to the streets to wtiness, etc. All is told about within the new testament.

We are taught in the new TEstament what the qualifications of a bishop(pastor) are as well. The apostolic church often met on a daily basis: "And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ" (Acts 5:42). Hebrews 10:25 tells us, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." Therefore, the closer we get to the end of this age, the more often we should meet together as a church.

I think you were being very liberal with what I meant the word "church" to mean. There is something wrong with someone who claims to be cleansed by the blood of Christ and yet does not yearn for fellowship nand prayer with fellow believers.


That was my whole point I've been trying to make... the question was originally do you need Church to believe. Of course you do, in fact you really can't separate salvation and Church.... becuase you become part of the Church when you're saved. As you just said, the Church is the people. It's a family, not an organization. My point is simply that Church should be defined as a family I belong to, not a club I have to join. Like my earthly family.. I'm born into it, I don't get voted into it. Like my earthly family, leaders emerge, they're not elected.

To this day I have no idea why people keep using Hebrews 10:25 to try to guilt people into sitting in a pew once a week. That passage is so simple and clear- and it doesn't say or even hint at any indication that we're supposed to go to a service once a week. I can assemble with believers anywhere, and I make it a point to because it's a desire God put in my heart. I went rabbit hunting with a young man that's a Christian last week, we had a great talk about Christ being involved in his marriage. Twice in the last 10 days my wife and I went out to dinner with Christian couples and really enjoyed each others company. Last night I took a guy to jail and had a great open door to share the Gospel and pray with him. My sons and I gather most nights and study, recently it's been the life of Abraham. I went coonhunting with a christian friend of mine- while in the woods we had a good talk about how blessed we are by God in our lives...... I could go on and on and on.... but the point is that these are all examples of a life living out Hebrews 10:25.

The fact is as Americans we grow up experiencing Church as a weekly meeting... so we read that experience into the Scripture.... but how they lived out Church is far from what most here do. People always use passages about early Jewish Christians going to the Temple every week.... but this was a Jewish custom long before the Church came to be. I hear talk about this "high organization" in the early Church..... but noone ever shows any Scripture to support it. If you think Church is something you attend, then attend it. I believe Church is something that captivated me and it is something I am, so I will live it 24/7.

Do I believe in a "universal Church".... of course, there's no way around the fact that there is one body....and do I believe in a "local Church", yes I do... I believe a local Church is simply the believers that you have close relationship with. For me, I've found that doing the club/building thing actually makes those relationships harder to facilitate. Once we start putting standards of how much to give, how often to go, where we should go etc.... we will automatically start coming up with man made regulations not found in the Bible, and that's legalism- the greatest enemy to Fathers Grace.

--On a separate not, I love the pic. you have of the kid packing the coon! cool picture. I assume that's your son? Good stuff there.

dk


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:19 pm 
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Houndsound, I believe we are running about 99% agreement on this subject. LOL.

I do believe however that we are instructed within the new testament to set aside a designated time to worship with like minded believers in an organized setting.

I am suffering from a bad stomach flu so I dont feel like posting all the scripture but the early organized church used the first day of the week to worship basing it on the fact that we are to give our first fruits to God and other issues and reasons from that era.

Yes, that is my son.... he is a coon hunting maniac and thanks to TrueBluefordman he is about to have his first real tree dog.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:13 pm 
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Hogguide wrote:
Houndsound, I believe we are running about 99% agreement on this subject. LOL.

I do believe however that we are instructed within the new testament to set aside a designated time to worship with like minded believers in an organized setting.

I am suffering from a bad stomach flu so I dont feel like posting all the scripture but the early organized church used the first day of the week to worship basing it on the fact that we are to give our first fruits to God and other issues and reasons from that era.

Yes, that is my son.... he is a coon hunting maniac and thanks to TrueBluefordman he is about to have his first real tree dog.


I suppose there's room for 1% disagreement within God's Grace! But when you're feeling better I'd love to see which Scripture clearly instructs us to designate a time to worship.

dk


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:31 am 
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dwoocox wrote:
The Revelation

CHAPER 1 V 4 To the seven churches which are in Asia. Who is
he talking to one person or a church building with a lot of people.
Lonnie Woodcox


Well, obviously He wasn't talking to just one person....although it was applicable to each individual person. And since there were no Church buildings or even a concept of a "Church Building" at that time in History I don't think that's a possibility either. Clearly and simply the letters were addressed to a group of people that were believers in each of those cities. And of course a majority of Christians believe they may have something to do with 7 different Church ages.

dk


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:26 pm 
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Houndsound, I dont have much time right now but, I think you are reading too much into what I am saying.

The "churches" set asides certain days of the week to meet and worship, witness, etc.

"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ" (Acts 5:42).

Hebrews 10:25 tells us, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

The practice of worshipping on Sunday was started by Christian believers in the early church (Acts 20:7)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:12 pm 
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Hogguide wrote:
Houndsound, I dont have much time right now but, I think you are reading too much into what I am saying.

The "churches" set asides certain days of the week to meet and worship, witness, etc.

"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ" (Acts 5:42).

Hebrews 10:25 tells us, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

The practice of worshipping on Sunday was started by Christian believers in the early church (Acts 20:7)


Gotta run.


Well the Acts 5:42 is saying that the early Jewish Christians that went to the Temple all the time before they were Christians and lived in their houses before they were Christians.... continued to do those things but now they taught and preached at those places. I don't think you can use that as any kind of command to get together- can you, I don't see how.

Again, the Hebrews text I just talked about in one of my last posts.... but basically it says- "Remember to get together with other believers, it's encouraging and important." There's nothing in that to indicate a regemented structured weekly Worship service is there?????

Like you said, we are largely in agreement- I just don't see any Scripture requiring the Church to meet for "worship", let alone a weekly structured service. Everyone tells me it does, but other then can only show me passages like Hebrews, which don't indicate anything to the fact. If you actually look you'll have a hard time finding any NT command for corporate worship. I recently asked a "worship Pastor" at a Church why corporate worship is important, "it's Biblical" he told me. I asked him to show me where in the Bible he got that from. Several days later he came and told me he was surprised he couldn't find it in there at all. Again, I think we often read our experience of what Church is into the Scripture- like assuming that Hebrews passage is talking an organized service meeting. It says nothing of the sort.

dk


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Houndsound, It is VERY evident that the NT churches were meeting regularly and had orgainzied meetings, and witness meetings where they went out and witnessed in thwe streets.

When someone gets saved thereshould be a natural spirit in them that wants them to meet with like minded people and worship, pray and exhort one another.

Thats why it says "assemble"...Assemeble is a word that doesnt happen by chance, it is planned.

People who have no natural desire to worship,pray and be with others of like faith trouble me. It isnt natural.


My duty is to Attend The Church. Live members go to church – dead ones are hauled there. Rev. 3:1, “Thou livest and art dead.”

My duty is to Extend The Church. By visitation and invitation, by friendliness, by caring for new converts, by cultivating a missionary vision both at home and abroad (Matt. 28: 19-20).

My duty is to Defend The Church. Six great dangers face the churches:

Infiltration of error (2 Tim. 4:3-4)

Wrong leadership (2 John 9)

Worldliness (1 John 3:15-17)

Complacency (Rev. 1:18)

Cliquishness (1 Cor. 3:4-8)

Disaffection (John 15:12,17)

My duty is to Commend The Church. We commend the church by what we are, with consistent Christian lives; by what we do, with actions speaking louder than words; by what we say, words that are gracious, loving, kind, and hence glorifying to our Lord.

In closing I would say that if you or me ever has a loss of deisre to hear God's word preached and to pray and worship with fellow Christians we have lost something and need to ask God to show us what has happened to our spiritual walkwith him.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:15 am 
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Hogguide wrote:
Houndsound, It is VERY evident that the NT churches were meeting regularly and had orgainzied meetings, and witness meetings where they went out and witnessed in thwe streets.

When someone gets saved thereshould be a natural spirit in them that wants them to meet with like minded people and worship, pray and exhort one another.

Thats why it says "assemble"...Assemeble is a word that doesnt happen by chance, it is planned.

People who have no natural desire to worship,pray and be with others of like faith trouble me. It isnt natural.


My duty is to Attend The Church. Live members go to church – dead ones are hauled there. Rev. 3:1, “Thou livest and art dead.”

My duty is to Extend The Church. By visitation and invitation, by friendliness, by caring for new converts, by cultivating a missionary vision both at home and abroad (Matt. 28: 19-20).

My duty is to Defend The Church. Six great dangers face the churches:

Infiltration of error (2 Tim. 4:3-4)

Wrong leadership (2 John 9)

Worldliness (1 John 3:15-17)

Complacency (Rev. 1:18)

Cliquishness (1 Cor. 3:4-8)

Disaffection (John 15:12,17)

My duty is to Commend The Church. We commend the church by what we are, with consistent Christian lives; by what we do, with actions speaking louder than words; by what we say, words that are gracious, loving, kind, and hence glorifying to our Lord.

In closing I would say that if you or me ever has a loss of deisre to hear God's word preached and to pray and worship with fellow Christians we have lost something and need to ask God to show us what has happened to our spiritual walkwith him.


O.K., we can go on forever like this. Once more you made a very long post. You make the comment that it's your "duty to attend Church"- but once again you don't show one single Scripture passage to back that idea up. That's all I'm asking for- you keep saying it's your duty to attend- here you go as far as to say a Christian that doesn't attend is "dead". You put a passage from Revelation on there with the word dead in it all though that passage in context has absolutely nothing to do with Church "attendance." You say the word "assemble" is planned. Better look up what Greek word is used there from original. Again, I'm afraid if Hebrews is your best argument you may need to reconsider your position- for the THIRD time I'll address that passage, it says nothing about a planned organized meeting, to see that in there requires you to assume it into the passage, it doesn't say that. Again you talk about how "evident" it was that they had these witness meetings and regular organized meetings- but once again you show no Scripture to support your position. You list 6 things that threaten the Church... I agree, I'd say there's even more..... but none of those things is, or mentions attendance to meetings.... I'm not sure why you thought listing those helped your position that we're required to attend worship events. You talk about the Matthew 28 passage, which I agree gives us some marching orders, but it doesn't say or even hint about any regular scheduled organized meetings now does it? You seem like a good devout follower of Christ and I appreciate that, but you need to re-think the company policy here, let the Scripture speak for itself. You're letting an organizational structure interpret stuff like the Hebrews passage for you that needs to be seen as an organization to survive.

It's obvious the Church, people who were disciples, met together, witnessed (I challenge the "worship" idea) and did so often as it was their lifestyle. But there is NO SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE to indicate these meetings were organized, regularly scheduled events that folks were required to attend or they'd be "dead" christians. To indicate attendance is a spiritualy life or death matter should require you to beable to point to a plain command, you haven't.

One last time. Church is not something you attend. If you believe it is, please show me in Scripture. I know the last guy on this thread basically called me a heratic for saying that and knew there was all sorts Scripture to support him, but he didn't have time to post them..... that was three months ago. So if you can show with Scripture that's it's mandated, required and instructed for me to attend a worship service please do. And if you can't then please have the dignity to say you can't. But please don't post again, and again say it without showing it in the Bible. What's the point to that?

Have you read Corinthians? In fact I was thinking about that... in there Paul really corrects them for turning "The Lord's Supper into a religious structured event, instead of it being a time of regular plain old fellowship."


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