ill try to tommarow, i have to go to work at 8 so i gotta go to bed.

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And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1Timothy 3:16.

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if your gonna bring out all them bible verses why not bring out the ones about eternal life
John 3:15-17 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Romans 6:22-23 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages if sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

thats not know were near all of them but just a few not tryin to be a smart ellic but wat do yuns thank about them verses just askin

Once saved, always saved. In my opinion it should be, once TRULY saved, always saved. We are going to make mistakes. There has only been one perfect person on earth. If we have Jesus in our heart then we will try to do what is right. But we will fail from time to time. Thank God he is just to forgive us when we ask.
I often think of my dad and how he treated me growing up. He would say "son if the best you can do is try, that is good enough for me. Just show me that you are trying." He would also say "I am not going to do it for you, you have to make an effort. But I will help you in any way I can." He said these things out of love because he cares. God knows we are going to fall but that's the beauty of it, when we do we can get up, dust ourselves off and try again. And God is there with both hands out helping us walk in these lives that we lead.
Anyway, these are just a few thaughts I had. Don't give up, we have access to all the power in the world through Jesus in prayer. Love yall and God Bless. (Jamie)James Ramey.

If your son or daughter sinned against you, would you abandon them and throw them away? My dog went through a phase of snarling at me (upmost sin by a dog for me), but I didn't stop loving him. I don't believe God throws us away just because we don't find him or practice his principles in all our affairs. There are times that I have committed whoppers of sins and yet never felt that God was rejecting me. Disappointed-yes, rejection-no. I do try to be a better person and be more of what God wants of me, but I fail repeatedly, saved or not.

One quick post on this......
It was originally said that people didn't couldn't understand people teaching "you can do whatever you want and still be saved". People that teach Eternal Security don't actually usually teach this. That is actually a false summarization of the teaching. I won't say it's never taught, but I've never heard it taught.

I can see why one would come to that conclusion.... that's why I prefer the term "perseverance of the saints" over "once saved always saved". That fact is the Bible teaches that if you are a recepiant of God's Grace, you will persevere.

Also, I look at it like this.... it wasn't my works, my following Christ's teachings etc.... that saved me, so it won't be doing those things that keeps me saved.... saved by Grace, persevering through His Grace, sealed by His Grace and held by His Grace. If you're doing stuff, even following Christ's teachings to stay saved (keep God happy with you) then you haven't experienced His Grace, perfect love "expels fear"

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Esse quam Videri

Here is a New Testament example of someone who was a baptized beliver then became lost, because of their own action.

But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. Acts 8:9-22

So you believe that you are saved by "grace only"? How can you really no that you are saved? You say that you don't have to follow the teachings of Christ? Didn't Christ say. "If you love me. keep my commandments." (John 14:15)

Yes, RiverRat, only by His Grace... SOLO GRATIA as the reformers said. I don't deserve it. I didn't become deserving when I said any sinners prayer or when I got baptized or when i got to Church or when I follow one of Christ's teachings.... I can do all that stuff and I would still be undeserving so the only thing I can cling to is my loving Fathers Grace. What do you think He was trying to get across in the story of the prodigal son???? The Father didn't say... oh my son is back... lets get a list of chores for him to do to prove he's my son... the Father gracisously out of His love for His lost son rejoiced, threw a party and welcomed him with open arms restoring him as an heir and son.

How do I know I'm saved? That's like asking me how I know I'm my dad's son, or how I know I'm married and in love with my wife. I know because it's an issue of the heart. I love my wife- because of that I am faithful to her, cherish her, help her, serve her etc..... I don't do those things to earn my wife's love, to prove my love, to earn love.... those things are a result of our loving relationship- not a requirement to produce love or to stay in her good graces. Wouldn't that be a sad marriage if I had a list of things I had to do to earn my wife's respect and love every day???? Much richer experience to have such awsome, authentic love that it produces those things out of love!

What it boils down to is we both believe in works. You view works as something you need to produce. You believe works are required of you to keep your salvation.

I believe works in my are produced by the Holy Spirit, God working in me. I believe works are a result, not a requirement, of a loving relationship with Father! And, as I said before, that's not a license to sin... The true teaching of "eternal security" never says...."so you can do whatever you want." Just as my love for my wife wouldn't allow me to cheat on her... my love for God will keep me faithful to Him.

One option has you staying faithful to God out of fear of rejection... the other has you staying faithful to God out of response to His wild, reckless, awesome, larger then I can grasp LOVE.

If your experience with Father has been one that produces fear and rejection..... I won't argue with you. All's I can tell you is what I've found in the Bible and about the Jesus that I know personally... and from getting to know Him, I'm very secure in His love for me- through all my many shortcomings.