Faith without works is dead. i am not talking about people that try and live right, if you are trying at the best of your knowledge, you will be saved. what i have a problem with, is people that say they are saved, and dont live by the words of the lord. im sorry thats not going to cut it. The bible says, if the rightouse scracly make it, were shall the sinners and the ungodly appear?

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And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1Timothy 3:16.

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midnight I truly admire your stand for rightousness I also believe we are to die daily to our old man (sin nature) and let Christ reign in our mortal bodies.... But we do have to give people room for mistakes we should strive for perfection but we also have to work out or salvation... some strongholds are dealt with through much prayer and fasting... not everyone is given the same amount of grace but thats how our Lord made it we have to deal with each other in LOVE without this we do not have true salvation...

I am so thankful that we live under grace and not law.

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Patrick Robinson
Star, N.C.
910 428 8984
If it was a sin 2000 years ago it is a sin today!!!

Patrich I am equally thankful we live under Grace instead of the law! I was reading Leviticus 19:27 and discvered that under the law I was commiting another sin. "You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads, nor harm the edges of your beards." My Mothers' hair cuts always involved sidewalls when I was growing up!

well swampdaddy, as you may know, im really not trying to harm anyone, im just bringing to light what the scriptures say. i looked all these verses up in the bible and thought i would share them with you all. i know we must die dayly, but i am totally against willfully sinning thats what is wroung. to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not to him it is sin

I couldnt agree more ... I know alot of people just wanna get fire insurance but that isnt acceptable to my God he says if your luke warm hell spew you out of his mouth in laymens terms you make God sick and he wants to throw up!!!!We serve a mighty and wonderful God praise his name ... WORTHY IS THE LAMB!!!!!

Aman

Here are some Irrefutable scriptures that say eternal life means eternal life. It is by God's grace; through faith in Christ as savior; begins now; and will not be withdrawn.
John 3:14-15
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: [15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Ephes. 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Jude 1:24-25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, [25] To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
2 Tim. 1:12
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
John 17:12-15
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. [13] And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. [14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
John 17:20-24
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; [21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. [24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Philip. 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Ephes. 2:5-7
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) [6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: [7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 8:38-39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:28-29
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Works and Salvation go together. Yet works are not able to save one, but will
follow one who has truly been saved.
Ephes. 2:8-10
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9]Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Titus 3:5-6
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; [6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

When Scripture addresses a church as a group, some in it may be mere professors not true saved believers. Thus there are many statements made that declares people to be saved if they continue to follow Christ as Lord, etc.
We certainly believe and agree with all these passages, for the test of a true believer is does he continue obedience to Christ, or does he make a profession, go to church,be baptized, then go back to his lost ways,as before he made his shallow profession, and all this with no pangs of conscience? He is an apostate, not a backslider who was truly saved, fell into sin, the Holy Spirit brought him to repentance and he was restored, ( as was David who lost his fellowship with God by sin, cried out for God to restore the joy of his salvation, but not his salvation, Psalm 51). A true believer should not lapse into sin yet David did and Peter did, and were restored. When a true believer sins he will have to face the correcting judgement of his FATHER, not his JUDGE,
1 John 2:1-2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

and to the point.

If a man is truly saved.

2Cor 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

If the new man starts living like the world.....and stays in the world. He is a bastard child.

Hebrews 12: 5-8
5: And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7: If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8: But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Meaning those who are truly saved by grace will be chastened by Lord unto repentance. Those who profess Jesus as their savior and don't endure til the end and seem to have fallen away were never ever saved.

I John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

texascoonhunter hit the nail on the head Jesus paid for all sin
till the end of time.

2peter 2:19-22 while they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. for if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world throughthe knowledge of the lord and savior jesus christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. for it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. but it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, the dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

this says, they escaped the pollution of the world, meaning they were saved, and were again entangled in the world. this means that they once were saved. and the latter end is worse than the first.

Does it say, "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The sheep is turned to its own vomit again? No it refers to this person as a dog. Nowhere in the NT is a saved person referred to as a dog. This here is talking about people that were somewhat transformed by the principles of Christs teaching and then turn aside after the pleasures of this world. This is simply someone who rejects the gospel after having knowledge of it. Not a SHEEP of Christ, but a dog.

As Spurgeon said,

If this dog had ever been born again and gotten a sheep's nature, it never would have gone back to its own vomit: and if this sow had ever been regenerated and had the heart of a lamb put into it, it never would have gone back to its wallowing in the mire.

The devil has a lot of washed sows, but they are not, and never have been, CHRISTS SHEEP.

This is not a question of a sheep of Christ perishing.

They escaped the pollutions of this world by practicing Christian virtues that Christ taught. Just like being brought up in a Christian home. Many children and teenagers are brought up with the knowledge of Christ, but turn aside after their own desires. They were never transformed but escaped many pollutions by trying to live right.

You people reduce the Blood of Christ to that of a sacrificial lamb in the old testament. I assure you ....

IT IS SUFFICIENT!!

Hey Midnight,

Describe how you lose your salvation specifically.

David

ok green, it is actually talking about a real dog, a hairy barking dog, because some will eat there own vomit. it was just using that as an example of how some people do when they repent, they fall into temptation and give into the devil. the bible says it is better to have not known the ways of righteousness, than to have known it and turned from it.