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For Or Against PAWS
For 5%  5%  [ 3 ]
Against 95%  95%  [ 56 ]
Total votes : 59
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:58 pm 
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O.K. I am in the process of contacting the Senators of the Agriculture committee. I am conducting some polls to put into my letters for the PAWS bill. I have already written them with my opinion every single one of them. I just want to give them the facts on how people actually feel about the legislation So please vote on this poll so I can get an accurate # wether you are for or against this legislation. If you need further info on this legislation and are not up to date on it there is another thread on here that discusses it or you can post here and I'll give you all I know on it. Please answer So I can give an accurate count to the legislators.


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 Post subject: against
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:08 am 
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Chop Mouth
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 280
can't see this turning into a positive for working and hunting dogs - but some people just don't get it - some are motivated by money - what these regulations will bring fee wise etc. - some just don't get it - just like with hunting - my son ended up with a judge at 4-H who didn't like the fact that the coons could be killed during season - he did a self-determined project on coonhounds and coonhunting - he answered her well and scored 100% but she wa bothered that coon would even ahve a season to be killed - some people don't understand overpopulation, danger to humans living around wildlife and/or habitat isssues - and its been my experience that thos type are hard to rason with. If you see a dog do what he was bred to do - you'd know there was nothing wrong with it!! we'll just have to keep fighting - I know AKC is all excited about all the good they are doing for the coonhound and coonhunters but it sure seems like they are more interested in the money from new affiliate clubs, hunts bench shows, future registrations etc. - and as far as I have been able to tell there is no plan to put the coonhounds much farther allong than FSS registration - that way they can get our entries for their hunts and registration of litters and future pups and dogs - they ahve their good points I am sure but looking out for the best interests of our dogs continuing to hunt and being able to hunt with dogs in the future may not be priority one - not everyone wants to be a competition hunter - we need to protect the rights of our pleasure hunters also - some of us have families and commitments that keep us from traveling to a lot of competition hunts etc. - but we stay active in the woods in our own communities - I'd say this is something (PAWS) that the AKC rep would want to make time for - so there will be coonhunters to breed, compete and show in the future!!!

God Bless
Tracy

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:14 pm 
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 Post subject: partner's?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:20 pm 
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Tight Mouth
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Hi, From what I've heard and read it seem's like AKC and PETA are in the same corner on this PAWS bill. Does this mean that PETA will slowly be taking over at AKC ? Will they continue joint project's together? Or what?.
I was thinking of reg. my dog's there but I don't want PETA to have personal info about me or my dog's. This sound's a little paronoid,I know.However they tried to use back door tactic's like this(,Brady and handgun inc.,) before with gun legislation so it mite not be that far off the track.
A similar situation has occured on Otsego lake in upstate N.Y. where my boat is docked. The rich folk's around the lake don't want outsiders to bring in fishing boat's. The local power's (mostly rich anti's) got together and pushed for state legislation to ban people from launching fishing boat's over 12ft. long. Exempt will be the huge power boat's and jet ski's that the rich folk's play with on the twelve mile long lake. Sportsman pay to have the lake stocked. Sportsman pay to maintain the boat launch. Sportsman got the shaft. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:50 pm 
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Silent Mouth
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 74
could someone eplain what this is? i looked at it but couldnt really get it. thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:01 pm 
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Redneck 454 here is what Drew posted on another thread this is the basics of it I just copied and pasted it I tend to get a little type happy when I start on this legislation

The PAWS bill is another attempt to amend the already badly drafted Animal Welfare Act (AWA). The original AWA was an attempt to regulate commercial breeders who sold their dogs to brokers, pet stores, research facilities, etc. The bill specifically exempted "retail pet stores" but made no mention of hobby breeders at all. The Secretary of Agriculture determined that hobby breeders fell within the meaning of "retail pet stores" and ruled that breeders who sold directly to buyers fell within the meaning of the term "retail pet store." Accordingly, the USDA has not regulated hobby breeders.

Three years ago, the Doris Day Animal League sued the USDA to require them to include hobby breeders. The UKC and other dog organizations opposed this and our side ultimately prevailed when the Supreme Court ruled that:

"Thus, nothing in the plain meaning of the term 'retail pet store' precluded the Secretary from construing that term to include 'any outlet' where certain animals, including dogs, 'are sold or offered for sale, at retail, for use as pets.' 9 CFR 1.1. To the contrary, the Secretary's regulation conforms to the accepted definition of the term 'retail store.'"

The court went on to say that the Secretary's interpretation had been in effect since 1971 and "Congress has not seen fit to alter that interpretation despite its willingness during that period to amend the AWA in other respects to achieve its policy goals."

Here we come to the heart of the matter. The AR activists at DDAL and HSUS realized that the Court wasn't going to give them what they want (federal regulation of ALL dog breeding) without a bill that established that very principle. PAWS is that bill.

AKC's analysis of the PAWS bill points out, correctly I might add, that the Secretary of Agriculture could change his interpretation of "retail pet store" at any time:

"While the USDA has interpreted the term retail pet store broadly in regulation for the more than 30 years since the enactment of this exemption, it is just a regulatory interpretation, and it could be changed simply by the USDA writing and justifying a new regulation."

However, there is no logical reason why the USDA, already overburdened with verifying the identities of individual cows in order to prove that they DON'T have mad cow disease and with preventing terrorist attacks on US agriculture, would suddenly be seized with the urge to add thousands of hobby breeders to its "to do" list.

AKC's lobbyist justifies the need for this bill by blaming the internet. According to him, in the days before the internet, breeders couldn't sell large numbers of puppies without wholesaling at least some of them.

"However, with the advent of the internet and mass media outlets, this is no longer true. The USDA, our own inspectors and fancy, and the animal welfare community are all now aware of large breeders who, by any reasonable definition of the term are commercial breeders, but who sell all of their animals at retail over the internet and/or through mass media. These breeders raise dozens, or even hundreds, of litters a year. Yet because all of the puppies are sold at retail, they evade any federal regulation."

This argument ignores a couple of important points. First, pet stores also sell hundreds of puppies each year and yet they will still go unregulated. Secondly, there are state and local laws regulating animal cruelty/neglect as well as consumer protection. Third, where is the evidence that these internet sellers exist in large numbers or that they NEED regulation?

The AKC analysis claims that:

"In the last few years, persons have begun importing increasing numbers of puppies for resale, also largely over the internet and/or through the mass media, although some auction houses and retail pet stores are also importing puppies directly for resale."

Again, Mr. Holt quotes no source for this claim. Stories of animal shelters importing mixed-bred dogs from Puerto Rico, Taiwan and elsewhere have been documented, but I have seen no evidence that: 1. Large numbers of dogs are being imported for resale; and 2. That these imported dogs are creating a problem. I know, for example, that many German Shepherds are imported from Eastern Europe because some believe that those dogs are superior service dogs, but I have seen nothing to indicate that these dogs are causing a problem requiring federal intervention. In any event, this bill will do nothing to improve the conditions in which dogs are raised outside of the United States.

Like all AR-backed bills, this bill contains some good things. For example, USDA lawyers could obtain injunctions against breeders who violate the AWA without requiring the intervention of the Department of Justice. But make no mistake about it, this bill is intended to do just what the Supreme Court talked about in DDAL v. USDA--it is creating a law that will demonstrate Congressional intent to regulate hobby breeders. Once that principal is established, then it is just a matter of time before the bill is amended to cover fewer litters and puppy sales.

The AKC has apparently decided that if they oppose this bill, no one in Washington will listen to them again. Sadly, what will happen is that no one outside of Washington will listen to them again. They are a big organization with the power to help us here, but they have chosen not to do so. So, we must help ourselves.

The bill is now in the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry. Here is how to voice your opposition to this bill:

Committee phone number: 202-224-2035

Mailing address: Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition & Forestry Room SR-328A Russell Senate Office Building Washington, DC. 20510-6000

Individual committee members names and e-mail addresses may be found at:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:03 pm 
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25 to 0 ... You would think afterall the people against paws have put in there word they would get the point that most everyone is against. But if your dumb enough to make the paws bill then apparently your not smart enoughto see everyone is against it!
Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:43 am 
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Chop Mouth
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Joined: 16 Apr 2005
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You should try posting this poll on a "moms" message board. You would probably be surprised at the results. We as hunters and breeders know what this bill will do, its all the people that really dont have a clue that you have to worry about....on the surface this bill looks OK. My sister was one of them that was fooled. I made her read a little deeper and she finally figured out it wasn't such a good bill.
chrys

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:29 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:29 am 
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Loose Mouth
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I voted against.People, although most of us will not be affected by this bill(at this time,Its easier to amend a bill once its passed)We have to look at the big picture. We cannot!! take any middle ground when dealing with the Antis.The antis have no desire to compromise at all.That is a fact!!!Go to any of their Web Sites and read it for your self. This bill is just a means for them to get a foot in the door.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:36 pm 
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Tight Mouth
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I oppose this bill. I also cant believe that anyone would want to join AKC since they are for the bill. My hats go off to UKC, I received a letter from them today about the bill stating the facts about PAWS. They have a wonderful staff and our for the Houndsmen. I urge all of us to stand together and fight this bill because if it passes you never know whats next. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:44 pm 
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You want to know what the antis want with this bill. I will tell you what they want. The Great state of Tennessse already has this law. Well right now the antis are pushing a bill to reduce the litter number from 7 to 1. The agriculture committee keeps putting it off and pushing it back. How far will they push it back until everyone forgets about it It has already been postponed numerous times. The last time was almost a year. This is what they want to dwindle the numbers down so every bit of breeding is regulated and ended.


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